My 17% Imperial Stout has been in the primary for 38 days. The last gravity reading i took was 1.070. I think its still going (at least I HOPE it is), and was wondering if its OK to transfer it to the secondary. Will it keep going in the secondary?
1.070 FINAL gravity!?! Couldn't be.
- Thread starter kaj030201
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Big10Seaner
Well-Known Member
I can't really help you on this, but others might if you post a recipe and what kind of yeast you used.
cheezydemon
Well-Known Member
It is 17% at 1.070??? Then it may be done. What yeast was used?
Danek
Well-Known Member
A lot will depend on what yeast you used, as there aren't many that could chew their way though a 17% wort. My guess would be your yeast is knackered and that there are still fermentable sugars in there, though more info on recipe and process would help.kaj030201 said:My 17% Imperial Stout has been in the primary for 38 days. The last gravity reading i took was 1.070. I think its still going (at least I HOPE it is), and was wondering if its OK to transfer it to the secondary. Will it keep going in the secondary?
TimBrewz
Well-Known Member
What was your OG? 1070 seems very high to me-usually one racks to 2ndary at 70% or so of expected FG What's your recipe say the FG should be? I've never brewed a beer that big but I have some wine making friends and they end lower than 1040 on big wines (16%)
Wade E
Beer Buster
As a wine maker myself, not to many wines are ever that high of a finished SG except for a Port or Ice wine. Im just starting on beer so I wont speak on that but it sounds like you either started way to high and the yeast has been overcome by alc. or it just couldnt handle all the sugar and never really fermented all the way.
Brewing Clamper
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we need a recipe and OG. That'll go a long way to get an idea of what's happening.
I wouldn't really recommend that. Wait for a point of 2 from FG then rack.TimBrewz said:
Hell I don't even secondary most of my beers anymore, just a good month in the primary followed by a week in the cold and it's crystal clear.
my OG was about 1.182 and the FG should be about 1.048, according to the recipe.
I used WLP099 (super high gravity) yeast and that works fine up to 25%. I followed all steps recommended by White Labs. Should i repitch a fresh vial of yeast or just let it sit another few weeks? What about transferring off the yeast? Is that OK to do yet?
I used WLP099 (super high gravity) yeast and that works fine up to 25%. I followed all steps recommended by White Labs. Should i repitch a fresh vial of yeast or just let it sit another few weeks? What about transferring off the yeast? Is that OK to do yet?
Beerthoven
Well-Known Member
Is this all grain or extract? If all grain, what was your mash temp? What was the temperature of carboy during fermentation?
zoebisch01
Well-Known Member
Well, it depends. Was this AG, extract, PM? We won't be able to tell you much more without recipe details. However, you are only around 60% attenuated and that strain is capable of 80%. Try rousing the yeast.
my money is on extract... but **** 1.182 thats not an imperial stout, it's well who knows. Did you just pitch that vial on top of a 1.182 wort? Or did you create a massive starter (pitch on a yeast cake), then add a acceptable gravity wort of less than 5 gallons, then add concentrated wort up to the 5 gallon mark as the yeast ferments as to never let the wort gravity actually ever be all that high?
If not, I bet you that yeast is done. Even though it says good to 25abv, you have to be very kind to the yeast to actually go that high. 60% attenuation or not, it's at 15%abv and the yeast might have been stressed enough.
If not, I bet you that yeast is done. Even though it says good to 25abv, you have to be very kind to the yeast to actually go that high. 60% attenuation or not, it's at 15%abv and the yeast might have been stressed enough.
mr x
Well-Known Member
That is a HUGE beer. You would need a big starter and definitely O2 aeration.
zoebisch01
Well-Known Member
z987k said:
That's why we need the details
cheezydemon
Well-Known Member
Multiple step wort additions (as mentioned) would be absolutely imperitive. Hope you aren't planning to bottle carb that goop.
Danek
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a mad brew. I applaud you for your endeavour 
z987k said:
followed instructions from White Labs. pitched starter (about a quart or so) of the WLP099 onto a wort of about 1.120. Aerated the s#!t out of it and waited 3 days to add more super-concentrated wort and another vial of the WLP099.
To answer some other questions, it is not all grain, but mostly grain. There are 2.5# of DME and 1# of Dark Candi Sugar.
The mash temp was moderate (150 degrees for 2.5 hours)
The wort was boiled for about 6 hours.
The fermenter has been kept at about 64 degrees.
Give your recipe, please. We can't help without further information.
ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
If you didn't ferment in steps, then you would have decimated the yeast with such a strong alcohol content if you just pitched in a starter into a 1.17 wort.
Brewing Clamper
Well-Known Member
That big of a beer, I would have made a standard gravity beer first and then pitched the cake. At any rate, we promise not to steal your recipe if you post it... at this point we're all just curious as hell to see if you could possibly have that much unfermentable sugar in there...
BarleyWater
Well-Known Member
With 2.5# of DME and 1# of candi sugar, he would have needed about 28# of two row for a 5 gal batch. My best advice would be to never attempt to make a beer that big again.
of two row for a 5 gal batch. My best advice would be to never attempt to make a beer that big again.
landhoney
Well-Known Member
kaj030201 said:
From Whitelabs website:
"Begin fermentation with a wort that would produce a 6-8% beer, and add wort (it can be concentrated) each day during the first 5 days. This can be done together with aeration. This is mandatory if the reported 25% ABV is to be achieved. "
1.120 is not a 6-8% beer by any stretch, not that it helps much now but you didn't really follow the directions. The problem is 1.120 is hard on the yeast to begin with, and then you're adding more fermentables on top of that. I'd try pitching more active, from a starter, wlp099 and if that doesn't work you can always give Brett a try. Give us a chance to see how high it can go.
If not, I'll try it, my next 18-20% ABV beer is dangerously close to being brewed. Brewing Clamper said:
I have posted threads about this recipe before. I will include the link since its easier than typing out all that stuff. http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=7190
landhoney said:From Whitelabs website:
"Begin fermentation with a wort that would produce a 6-8% beer, and add wort (it can be concentrated) each day during the first 5 days. This can be done together with aeration. This is mandatory if the reported 25% ABV is to be achieved. "
1.120 is not a 6-8% beer by any stretch, not that it helps much now but you didn't really follow the directions. The problem is 1.120 is hard on the yeast to begin with, and then you're adding more fermentables on top of that. I'd try pitching more active, from a starter, wlp099 and if that doesn't work you can always give Brett a try. Give us a chance to see how high it can go.
Yes, yes you are pointing out how my original amount was far higher than the suggested 6-8%. However, it was not a full 5 gallons, but only 2 gallons. I figured a quart sized starter into 2 gallons of wort might be OK. And the yeast seemed to be fermenting very actively for about 3 weeks, and has quieted down quite a bit over the last 2 weeks.
Leave in Primary. Rouse the yeast cake. Maybe even pitch another starter of the high grav yeast and/or several packs of 1118 champagne yeast.
DO NOT move to secondary as that will remove it from the yeast cake.
It can take 6 weeks of primary on beers half that size to fully ferment out and usually requires multiple yeast rousings.
Also at this point you may want to raise the temp up a degree or two. Make sure you carboy isn't on a clod floor. That could cause stalling.
DO NOT move to secondary as that will remove it from the yeast cake.
It can take 6 weeks of primary on beers half that size to fully ferment out and usually requires multiple yeast rousings.
Also at this point you may want to raise the temp up a degree or two. Make sure you carboy isn't on a clod floor. That could cause stalling.
As the wort gets thicker with sugar content, there comes a point where the yeast have a hard time surviving, regardless of the cell count. Take jelly or honey for example - because of the extremely high sugar content, micro-organisms have a hard time surviving, and the shelf lives of those products are usually fairly lengthy as a result. IIRC, it's an issue with cell wall stability in fairly saturated solutions. The White Labs directions lead you to ferment relatively small amounts of sugar at a time to avoid that phenomenon. Your yeast are probably pooped. Time to dilute the beer or accept its high FG.
EDIT:
Google, "shock excretion," for more scientific explanations than my layman's terms above.
EDIT:
Google, "shock excretion," for more scientific explanations than my layman's terms above.
Unless you're kegging, you're going to be looking at this beer as being drunk flat (like a Utopias).
Benny Blanco
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't adding a shot of vodka to a stout be a little easier?
Dave the Brewer
Well-Known Member
mr x said:
I also was thinking you would really need some O2 in the wort to allow the yeast to do their thing.
Benny Blanco said:
Not the same damn thing, no, not at all.
Kaj, also add some yeast nutrient.
If the starter is well oxygenated he shouldn't need to oxygenate the wort though, arguably if the yeast are in a aerobic stage (first 24hrs post pitch) then the wort shouldn't get oxidized by oxygenating it. So..
Denny's Evil Concoctions said:
i have never used champagne yeast- will it alter the flavor of the beer much? Funny, but the beer is turning out top taste a lot like grapes anyways (maybe due to the Nelson Sauvin hope). I wonder if the champagne yeast would accentuate that MORE?
dismantle360
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I just cant believe the original gravity of that beer.
WOW
WOW
cheezydemon
Well-Known Member
Bottom line is, you didn't really follow the directions at all. Sorry!
I would dilute it up to a 4 gallon batch and add DME in concentrated 1/2 gallon batches over the next couple of days.
I would dilute it up to a 4 gallon batch and add DME in concentrated 1/2 gallon batches over the next couple of days.
landhoney
Well-Known Member
kaj030201 said:
You can force carb and bottle, but ideally the yeast are still alive/healthy enough to eat that final bit of sugar at bottling and carb it. If those(WWS&120) beers are bottle carbed, I believe so, the beer/yeast wasn't 'stuck'. The yeast fermented all the fermentable sugar and then were able to do the bottle carbing normally.
landhoney
Well-Known Member
kaj030201 said:
I can't say for sure, I think when the ABV gets up there it might be too 'shocking' for the yeast and it may or may not work. From my understanding though, adding them straight from the tube is almost assured not to work, maybe adding from a starter when the yeast are in consumption 'mode'.
