Never Use Pbw Again!!

Denny said:

Good advice.

Ya know, regular old Oxiclean works so well for me I have a hard time understanding why you'd screw around adding TSP (or anything) to it. It couldn't possibly do a better job for me no matter what I added to it.

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I'm pretty sure you have soft water up there though, right? That makes a pretty big difference with cleaners. Many of them don't work nearly as well with hard water.

jsguitar said:

I'm pretty sure you have soft water up there though, right? That makes a pretty big difference with cleaners. Many of them don't work nearly as well with hard water.

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Not overly soft, but certainly not hard.

Denny said:

Not overly soft, but certainly not hard.

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Here neither - leaves a ring in the toilet bowl but no stains in the shower.

iron and hardness....two different things....although lots of times they go together.

What about adding something like sodium hexametaphosphate (original agent in Calgon water softener) to the mix?

i.e. Oxyclean + TSP + sodium hexametaphosphate

Thoughts?


(BTW: I don't have the background to suggest this. I just know it's the original formulation for Calgon water softener and comes up as a possible chelating additive)

Certainly not going to argue on a message board.... but...

Recently started using PBW after 10 years of scrubbing like crazy after each brew day. That was 10 years of wasted effort as PBW does an incredible job.

Use whatever works for you, spend whatever amount you can afford.... I'll use PBW for at least as long as this 1 lb container lasts. May try oxiclean after that... but PBW certainly works well.

Don't need much to chelate, just mix PBW with a larger, cheaper amount of oxiclean

smccarter said:

Certainly not going to argue on a message board.... but...

Recently started using PBW after 10 years of scrubbing like crazy after each brew day. That was 10 years of wasted effort as PBW does an incredible job.

Use whatever works for you, spend whatever amount you can afford.... I'll use PBW for at least as long as this 1 lb container lasts. May try oxiclean after that... but PBW certainly works well.

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I'm funny about cost: I'll spend freely, even excessively, on things I see as one-time costs, but I will spend days/weeks/etc., trying to reduce recurring costs as much as humanly possible without sacrificing results... Example: I just dropped $500+ on a RO/DI setup so I can stop buying DI water to reduce my mineral content. It'll take over a year to pay back, but it was a one-time expense, and drops my batch costs by $20-$30...

I love PBW. It's the best thing I've found yet to clean my equipment. The cost, though, is horrendous. I'm running a 15 gal setup and using 5 gal of cleaning solution with 5-10 oz of PBW after every batch. Oxyclean works great, but with my water gives me the oft complained about white haze.

With fermenters, I live with it. I just do a StarSan or Vinegar rinse after the Oxyclean. I don't like doing that with my hoses and chiller because I can't see all of the internals.

For now, I'm continuing to use PBW. I'd love to find a DIY replacement, though, to make batch costs cheaper.

IvanBrew said:

I'm funny about cost: I'll spend freely, even excessively, on things I see as one-time costs, but I will spend days/weeks/etc., trying to reduce recurring costs as much as humanly possible without sacrificing results... Example: I just dropped $500+ on a RO/DI setup so I can stop buying DI water to reduce my mineral content. It'll take over a year to pay back, but it was a one-time expense, and drops my batch costs by $20-$30...

I love PBW. It's the best thing I've found yet to clean my equipment. The cost, though, is horrendous. I'm running a 15 gal setup and using 5 gal of cleaning solution with 5-10 oz of PBW after every batch. Oxyclean works great, but with my water gives me the oft complained about white haze.

With fermenters, I live with it. I just do a StarSan or Vinegar rinse after the Oxyclean. I don't like doing that with my hoses and chiller because I can't see all of the internals.

For now, I'm continuing to use PBW. I'd love to find a DIY replacement, though, to make batch costs cheaper.

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Do you get the white haze when using Oxiclean in RO water?

kevink said:

Do you get the white haze when using Oxiclean in RO water?

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Humorously (perhaps) I haven't tried that... It does seem like a potentially simple solution, doesn't it. That would explain why I hadn't thought of it before now... /facepalm

IvanBrew said:

Humorously (perhaps) I haven't tried that... It does seem like a potentially simple solution, doesn't it. That would explain why I hadn't thought of it before now... /facepalm

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If the haze is caused by minerals in the water, that should take care of it. I would really like to know the results if you try it. If it works, your RO filter will pay for itself even quicker.

kevink said:

If the haze is caused by minerals in the water, that should take care of it. I would really like to know the results if you try it. If it works, your RO filter will pay for itself even quicker.

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I have a basic RO cartridge now. I'll give that a shot tonight and let you know the results.

My DI system is on its way, so if the RO doesn't do it, I'll try it again when I get that all hooked up and running...

I still can't bring myself to purchase a laundry detirgent for cleaning brewing equipment and ESPECIALLY my fermenter or kegs.

For those wasting so much PBW, REUSE it! Just because you scrubbed a few pots doesn't mean it's ready to be poured out. The cleaning properties are still present!

What temperatures are you guys using? I think for CIP PBW recommends at least 100F to reduce foaming and most of my brewer friends CIP closer to 150F+.

On the other hand I've used hot tap water in buckets with OC and TSP.

So I see that this thread is quite old and had to laugh at the OP complaing about PBW being $4 a pound! Well I guess thats one of the benifits of necro threads.

Does SUN have perfumes in it, or is it free of them the way OXYCLEAN FREE is? The only SUN product I can see is a liquid one, not a powdered one.

Was this in regard to it being more expensive? The 50 lb buckets are $3.90/lb on Amazon.

I clean my things with PBW but use it at approximately half the strength they recommend. Maybe having a water softener and the hot water heater next to sink makes the difference? Soak my bmb fermenters, siphons, tubing and hoses an hour or so, wipe with a cloth, rinse and done. Will have to look into cheap oxi cleaner from laundry room and 'borrow' some when swmbo is not looking. Use the pbw every other cleaning instead.

Don't buy the PBW Tablets (1 per 3 gallon), as they don't always dissolve even in hot tap water

The Pol said:

There are many threads on this, but I have to say... PBW is a waste of my money. It works well, no doubt, but at what cost? $4 per pound? And at a mixing ratio of 1-1.5oz per gallon?

I took some advice and switched to OxyClean... no not the name brand either, SUN OxyClean for $1 per pound. The mixing ratio I used was .33 oz/gallon. Mixed with some hot water, and within 45 minutes it had eaten everything out of my primary. AMAZING.

So lets see:

4 pounds of PBW at a cost of $16 will yield 64 gallons of cleaner
4 pouinds of Oxy at a cost of $4 will yield 194 gallons of cleaner

So a gallon of PBW costs me about $.25
So a gallon of Oxy costs me about $.02

Nice... well, I will never buy PBW again.

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Better yet get sodium percarbonate. It is the active ingredient in Oxi clean and it is safe.

damn, is this the wrong thread to say i'm listening to "MegaDeth - Mastermind"? lol

i made a bucket of homebrew PBW following the directions in the other thread.....

(Do I get bonus points for dredging up a dozen-year-old thread? Anyway, did a search, got to here...)

There's another thread somewhere -- if I ever find the link I'll update here -- where someone did a chemical breakdown of PBW then reconstructed with cheaper materials. I make "home-made PBW" at about $2.50/lb in small qty, about 1/3 that if I buy big-batches of ingredients.

TL;DR:
* 12 parts Oxyclean powder
* 6 parts 7th gen dishwasher powder
* 5 parts TSP/90 (aka Red Devil)

A "part" can be a spoonful, a cup or a bucket -- just so long as the ratios are the same and you mix it up good.

fwiw, I don't think HBT lacks for PBW alternative/analog recipes...

Cheers!