Saccrification Temp vs Preboil OG

I went with Full body Single Infusion on the first couple of AG batches I did and wondered why my preboil OG efficiency was so horribly low. It wasn't until I did a light... very light, dry body mash that I found my preboil OG efficiency over 75%.

This lead me to believe there must be a chart, standard, or system to calculate your preboil OG based on your saccrification temp and grain bill.
Or maybe I'm missing the boat on this, or am using the wrong software

I do know this :
1. For my full body beers, my preboil og efficiency was around 45 to 50%, and it converted the starches quickly.
2. For my light body beers, my preboil og efficiency was around 75 to 80% and it took a very long time to convert the starches

If there is no system, chart, or design than it would be nice to get others input so I could calculate a graph, and in turn, develop a formula. And let me know your sparging technique too :>

Sounds like something in your process, as mashing temps shoudln't affect your efficiency that much. So, a couple questions:

- How long are you letting it rest at your sac temp?
- What sparging technique are you using? (Can't think of how this would be related, but I figured I'd ask ^^)

I keep my technique the same, just change the temps... but here is my rundown

1. Measure and mill grain. I use a crankenstien and have the gap adjusted to .039. I then leave the grain and mash tun at room temps.
2. I add gypsum to my water, and then adjust it to exactly 5.2 pH
3. I heat the water to X degress. X being my striking temps.
4. I pour the grist into my Mash Tun (Converted IceCube Cooler) and then pour the liquor.
5. I Graph the temp changes on a probe thermometer placed in the middle of the tun.
6. On 30 min increments I take a sample and use iodine reagent to test.

Perhaps I'm putting too much faith in the iodine reagent(or misreading it)? From what I have found is that the lower the sacc temps the longer I have to hold the mash to get a complete conversion.

Sparging :

1. I heat two to three gallons of liquor to 168. I carefully use a 2 gallon watering can to keep the water level above the grain bed.
2. I drain very slowly... takes almost hour and a half to two hours to drain the whole batch.
3. Halfway through the sparging is when I take my hydrometer reading. I don't write the results until the hydrometer has cooled down to atleast 70 degrees (I record the adjusted reading).

Now, back to X -- my strike temp. It seems directly related that the hotter I strike, the shorter the mash conversion, and the lower my efficency. I recently recalibrated my thermometers and found I was striking well to hot. After the thermometer was adjusted I was able to get much, much more efficiency.

LupusUmbrus said:

Sounds like something in your process, as mashing temps shoudln't affect your efficiency that much. So, a couple questions:

- How long are you letting it rest at your sac temp?
- What sparging technique are you using? (Can't think of how this would be related, but I figured I'd ask ^^)

Click to expand...

digdan said:

I keep my technique the same, just change the temps... but here is my rundown

1. Measure and mill grain. I use a crankenstien and have the gap adjusted to .039. I then leave the grain and mash tun at room temps.
2. I add gypsum to my water, and then adjust it to exactly 5.2 pH
3. I heat the water to X degress. X being my striking temps.
4. I pour the grist into my Mash Tun (Converted IceCube Cooler) and then pour the liquor.
5. I Graph the temp changes on a probe thermometer placed in the middle of the tun.
6. On 30 min increments I take a sample and use iodine reagent to test.

Perhaps I'm putting too much faith in the iodine reagent(or misreading it)? From what I have found is that the lower the sacc temps the longer I have to hold the mash to get a complete conversion.

Sparging :

1. I heat two to three gallons of liquor to 168. I carefully use a 2 gallon watering can to keep the water level above the grain bed.
2. I drain very slowly... takes almost hour and a half to two hours to drain the whole batch.
3. Halfway through the sparging is when I take my hydrometer reading. I don't write the results until the hydrometer has cooled down to atleast 70 degrees (I record the adjusted reading).

Now, back to X -- my strike temp. It seems directly related that the hotter I strike, the shorter the mash conversion, and the lower my efficency. I recently recalibrated my thermometers and found I was striking well to hot. After the thermometer was adjusted I was able to get much, much more efficiency.

Click to expand...

Mashing.
1. I warm my mash tun to mashing temperature before using it. If you don't do this, you will have to add hotter mash water as some of the heat will go to warming the tun. There's nothing wrong with not warming the tun. Whatever works for you is good.
2. You need a mash PH of 5.2 while mashing. When you add the grains, they will acidify the mash, and if you start with water at 5.2, you will have a very acid mash. This could certainly affect your efficiency. I add 1 1/2 teaspoons of gypsum per 6 gals of water (with an initial PH of 7.4), but never bother about the mash PH because I get good results with the gypsum.
3. When you add the water, it will lose heat warming the grains and the tun. The critical temperature is the mash temperature, and I never manage to hit the right temp, but I have a small amount of hot and cold water available to adjust the temperature as required.
4. I add the liquor and grist in small increments, as I find it easier to mix this way, and make sure that the grain is properly moistened.
5. Cool
6. I used to do this, but spilled the iodine so often, that my wife stopped me from using it. I now mash for 60 minutes, and tell her that iodophor is not iodine.

Sparging
1. I use about 6 gals of sparge water acidified with gypsum and heated to 180. (By the time it has travelled through the tubing, and out the sparge arm, it has cooled to 165 - 170.) I use the gypsum to prevent excess tannins from being extracted from the grain.
2. Perfect.
3. I never bother with gravities until I am ready to pitch.

I usually use about 8 lbs grain, and achieve an OG of 152 - 154 with a volume of 5.25 gals. According to promash, my efficiency is > 100% (I haven't yet found why I get this efficiency, but I'm dreaming of selling my secrets to the big breweries, and retiring on the proceeeds. )

Hope this helps.

-a.

I also belive that something else changed in the system.

Are you doing a mash-out? This means bringing the themp of the mash to ~75C (?? F) and letting is rest there for about 15 min before you start the lauter. The hotter the mash, the easier it will flow and the more sugars can be extracted. But I'm not sure if this alone can be the cause of the big difference you are seing in your efficiency. Especially since I would expect it the other way around: low mash temp -> ligher beer -> less effiencient sparging; high mash temp -> fuller beer -> more efficient sparging.

To your other questions:

The trend for the conversion times that you are seeing is correct.

To my knowledge there is no tool out there than can calcuate the potential attenuation of your beer based on the mashing cycle. Thoug it seems possible to do this, there are to many factors, that we don't measure, that need to be considered. Many of these factors change from brewer/brehouse to brewer/brewhouse.

Kai