Electric Question

CodeRage said:

5vdc relays aren't cheap, mechanicals any ways. Thats why I wish the BCS outputs were at least 12VDC. Or worst case an open drain output...

Regardless, I found these guys on ebay super cheap. I'd snatch them up for the outputs that don't need an SSR.
http://cgi.ebay.com/SMALL-CRYDOM-SS...ultDomain_0?hash=item53dc1a9aed#ht_646wt_1165

Then use one of those to drive an auber contactor for the high current stuff. They can drive a march pump on their own.

If you are still having trouble figuring it out I'll draw yah up something this weekend. Can you point me to some kind of interface schematic to the BCS?

Click to expand...

Not a schematic but some info (if you haven't seen it)... I will continue to see what I can find:

http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page#Technical_Specifications

http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/wiki/index.php?title=Technical_Specifications

Thanks,
Ed

CodeRage said:

5vdc relays aren't cheap, mechanicals any ways. Thats why I wish the BCS outputs were at least 12VDC. Or worst case an open drain output...

Regardless, I found these guys on ebay super cheap. I'd snatch them up for the outputs that don't need an SSR.
http://cgi.ebay.com/SMALL-CRYDOM-SS...ultDomain_0?hash=item53dc1a9aed#ht_646wt_1165

Then use one of those to drive an auber contactor for the high current stuff. They can drive a march pump on their own.

If you are still having trouble figuring it out I'll draw yah up something this weekend. Can you point me to some kind of interface schematic to the BCS?

Click to expand...

I think I may have just had an epiphany, here is my thought:
I have been thinking that I need to apply current directly (not through the ssr) to the heat elements when in manual mode AND disconnect the AC current taking the ssr completely out of the circuit when in the OFF position.

Can I just put a selector switch in the 5vdc control line to the ssr instead?
So I would have something like this:
Position 1 - BCS Output to SSR
Position 2 - Open to SSR
Position 3 - 5vdc to SSR (assuming I bought a 5vdc power supply for control voltage)

Do I NEED a contactor in the AC line to the SSR, or will switching the control line be enough?

(btw... Unless I'm missing something, the link you posted for the relay above is for an SSR)

Thanks,
Ed

Yes, that would work brilliantly. You'll have to be sure that the BCS and the +5v power supply you use have their commons bonded.

Yes, those are indeed SSRs and they are a much cheaper alternative than mechanical relays for the small loads needed to be controlled by the BCS. One could easily operate 2 march pumps, or larger contactors.

If you ARE going to use a 5v control system I would suggest using those.

CodeRage said:

Yes, that would work brilliantly. You'll have to be sure that the BCS and the +5v power supply you use have their commons bonded.

Yes, those are indeed SSRs and they are a much cheaper alternative than mechanical relays for the small loads needed to be controlled by the BCS. One could easily operate 2 march pumps, or larger contactors.

If you ARE going to use a 5v control system I would suggest using those.

Click to expand...

I have been a bit afraid of SSR's... The first time I connected one it kind of "bled" ac voltage. If I tested the ac output with a meter, there was AC voltage present regardless of the control voltage (on or off). Once I put a load on the ssr, it appeared to work fine. Is this normal?

So, I'm thinking I'd still like to have a double pole contactor on the incoming 240... Can my "Main Power On/Off" also double as an E-Stop?

Thanks again,
Ed

Ohio-Ed said:

Thanks for the input.

Yea... I know they are out there. They just appear to be pricey. The dssr's I have seen appear to be $50+. I guess one advantage over doubling up sss's is fewer heat sinks.

I'm struggling with how to configure an element to be controlled by a 3 way selector switch that is not high current. I've been looking for a picture/drawing but not having a whole lot of luck.

Also... any specific ideas on a mechanical relay I can use with 5vdc?
Would you suggest panel mount or using some kind of socket?

Since I have a bcs460 and it's output voltage is 5vdc... does it make sense to use 5vdc for control through out the whole panel? Should I be looking for a 5vdc power supply for relay coils etc (or is another voltage more common and therefore more readily available?)

Dang, I have a lot of questions... The lists just seem to go on and on...


Ed

Click to expand...

What are you trying to do? I can probably help you. I do schematic design all day long. I'd much rather be drawing brewing gadgets than medical equipment! (and I'm my own boss).

Ohio-Ed said:

I have been a bit afraid of SSR's... The first time I connected one it kind of "bled" ac voltage. If I tested the ac output with a meter, there was AC voltage present regardless of the control voltage (on or off). Once I put a load on the ssr, it appeared to work fine. Is this normal?

So, I'm thinking I'd still like to have a double pole contactor on the incoming 240... Can my "Main Power On/Off" also double as an E-Stop?

Thanks again,
Ed

Click to expand...

Yeah, an SSR needs a load to appear off.

I would strongly advise that you use a two poll contactor with an E Stop. You could also put a system on/off latch circuit in there too.

passedpawn said:

What are you trying to do? I can probably help you. I do schematic design all day long. I'd much rather be drawing brewing gadgets than medical equipment! (and I'm my own boss).

Click to expand...

Basically, I have a BCS-460. I am in the process of building a 5500 watt HLT and a 5500 watt BK. I have a 1500 watt RIMs heater, 2 march pumps and 4 Temp Probes for the BCS460. I also have a 50 amp GFCI breaker.

If you look at post #11 in this thread you can see where I am/was...
I think I had a revelation today when I realized I can switch the control voltage and therefore not need high current selector switches. I was trying to think of how to do a 3 way double pole selection using power relays. Because the BCS outputs are 5vdc, I think I am going to locate a 5v power supply to use for additional/manual control.

I can kinda follow a simple schematic. But defining and sourcing specific components is a whole new problem.

I am still pretty early in the process so any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Ed

Ohio-Ed said:

Basically, I have a BCS-460. I am in the process of building a 5500 watt HLT and a 5500 watt BK. I have a 1500 watt RIMs heater, 2 march pumps and 4 Temp Probes for the BCS460. I also have a 50 amp GFCI breaker.

If you look at post #11 in this thread you can see where I am/was...
I think I had a revelation today when I realized I can switch the control voltage and therefore not need high current selector switches. I was trying to think of how to do a 3 way double pole selection using power relays. Because the BCS outputs are 5vdc, I think I am going to locate a 5v power supply to use for additional/manual control.

I can kinda follow a simple schematic. But defining and sourcing specific components is a whole new problem.

I am still pretty early in the process so any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Ed

Click to expand...

I built my system with 1 PID and 2 elements. I use a selector switch as shown in this drawing to select which element, and which thermocouple, returns to the PID.

Maybe you can get something out of it. I used the selector switch to switch the control input of one of the SSRs .

CodeRage said:

Yeah, an SSR needs a load to appear off.

I would strongly advise that you use a two poll contactor with an E Stop. You could also put a system on/off latch circuit in there too.

Click to expand...

I reworked the drawing based on switching control instead of current. I also made it a bit more like a ladder diagram.

I still have details to add... (E-Stop, Indicators, etc) but wanted to know what you think so far? I know it may not be complete, but do you see anything wrong?

Thanks for your help so far,
Ed

View attachment Visio-Panel v2.0.pdf

Bravo Ed! Not a bad job at all!

Only two bits of correction.

Current sources should be on the left. Both L1 and L2 would be to the left of the loads.

The E stop disconnects should be at the top.

May make a controls engineer out of you yet Add the elements you think you are missing and it should be good.

If you are going to use panel switches and such the symbols you are using are incorrect. But that is okay, you don't know what the right way is. We'll see if we can fix that tonight

CodeRage said:

Bravo Ed! Not a bad job at all!

Only two bits of correction.

Current sources should be on the left. Both L1 and L2 would be to the left of the loads.

The E stop disconnects should be at the top.

May make a controls engineer out of you yet Add the elements you think you are missing and it should be good.

If you are going to use panel switches and such the symbols you are using are incorrect. But that is okay, you don't know what the right way is. We'll see if we can fix that tonight

Click to expand...

OK... so what order should the "rails" be in left to right?
Does L1, L2, +5vdc, -dc, N work?
Then should my outputs be between the +5vdc and -dc rails?

Usually it looks something like

L1,L2, +DC, control logic, load, -DC, N

Your outputs from the BCS would look like normally Open contacts with the appropriate label and pin numbers placed between the +5VDC and 0VDC.

+5VDC -> BCS outputs contact -> SSR Coil -> 0VDC.

I like the BCS, I think it is a pretty clean looking package. The only thing that bugs me about it is the Digital Outputs, for all the different equipment that can be used, a set of dry contacts would have been great. 2 or more 0-5VDC Analog outputs would be great too. Im guessing the Analog inputs are 0to 5 as well. Oh well.. Wish in one hand and ... in the other.

I found this contactor, but can't find any other details. Does the coil voltage refer to the voltage required to close/open the contacts? I don't even know if this is NO or NC? Any thought if this may work for my Main Power / E-Stop?

http://www.spaandpoolsource.com/contactordoublepole240vcoil50amp.aspx

I looked at the contactors at Aubers... they are 40amp. I know that's more than I would draw as things are currently layed out, but just thought, if possible I should design for all I can get out of the 50amp GFCI and 6/4 SO cord I bought.

Contactors are Normally Open. Yes, 240VAC is required to energize the contactor. Mechanical relays and contactors use an electromagnet (the coil) to cause the contacts to open or close. So thats why they give a coil rating. It'll work for yah.

CodeRage - I had another thought...
The BCS requires 6 - 10vdc to operate. The outputs are 5vdc.
Can I use a single 6vdc power supply to run the BCS AND provide ancillary control as I had drawn instead of a 5vdc power supply?

Thanks,
Ed

The SSRs wont have a problem with it. You'll have to make sure that the 6vdc doesn't back feed into the outputs just to be safe.

Double checked your drawing. Yeah, wiring it that way you'll be fine.

Crap... So, I've spent the last 3 hours looking for a chassis mount 6vdc power supply. Looks like "wall worts" are available. Any idea if and where I might find a chassis mount version?

Update:

Just realized the BCS has a separate +5Vdc connector that is rated at 300mA output. I'm thinking I should be able to use this for separate manual cotrol, right?

Updated previous post.

Ohio-Ed said:

Crap... So, I've spent the last 3 hours looking for a chassis mount 6vdc power supply. Looks like "wall worts" are available. Any idea if and where I might find a chassis mount version?

Update:

Just realized the BCS has a separate +5Vdc connector that is rated at 300mA output. I'm thinking I should be able to use this for separate manual cotrol, right?

Click to expand...

Yup! That would be the best option period!

Don't use it for anything other than signal voltage for DIs and control lines to SSRs. Don't want to put a whole lot of load on it.

Gettin darn close... I hate the idea of building a "wall wort" into a panel. If I can find a 6Vdc "Brick" with an AC cord, I guess I could cut the plug and wire it into a terminal strip to power the BCS? If I found a 12v Power supply, would it be tough to convert it to 6v?

Ed

You can go 6 to 10vdc for a power supply. Really strange though, considering everything uses 12vdc... I am guessing 6vdc is the drop out voltage of the 5v regulator they are using.

You could get a 12vdc and put 3 or 4 large zeiner diodes in series before it goes into the BCS. (I can't remember if its a .7 or .5v drop per). If it's .7 then they would dissipate about .35W of heat, .5V would be .25W, at the 6W power they quote for the wall wort. So you would need .5W diodes.

Updated drawing...

I could still use some help with the E-Stop.

CodeRage - I looked at the circuit in the PDF in your Electrical Primer thread but can't say I follow.

Anyone see any problems with this before I start sourcing parts?

Thanks,
Ed

View attachment Visio-Panel v2.5.pdf

Hey bud, having a night mare of a brew night so bare with me if I seem short.

Are you powering the BCS with the 5v power supply? thought it was a minimum of 6v?

If you are using the aux 5v out to power your controls they need to be on separate buses. Same goes for the DC- although they may be tied internally on the BCS

If you do need to separate the buses then the BCS power supply should have a fuse on it, U/L 508 derates it 50% but you could put the largest fuse under the current rating. Make sure it is a fast blow.

On the 5vdc control power from the BCS, you should put a 300 or 250ma fast blow fuse. Should it bump something it shouldnt, it wont cook the BCS.

I'll get back to yah in a bit

For your e-stop, you will want to place it before EVERYTHING on the control circuit. I can send you a 22.5mm e-stop with a normally closed contact block on it if it will help you to see what you are working with. I also have an enclosure if you want it outside of the main panel.

CodeRage said:

Hey bud, having a night mare of a brew night so bare with me if I seem short.

Are you powering the BCS with the 5v power supply? thought it was a minimum of 6v?

If you are using the aux 5v out to power your controls they need to be on separate buses. Same goes for the DC- although they may be tied internally on the BCS

If you do need to separate the buses then the BCS power supply should have a fuse on it, U/L 508 derates it 50% but you could put the largest fuse under the current rating. Make sure it is a fast blow.

On the 5vdc control power from the BCS, you should put a 300 or 250ma fast blow fuse. Should it bump something it shouldnt, it wont cook the BCS.

I'll get back to yah in a bit

Click to expand...

First things First... Get the brew under control !!!

I screwed up the drawing! I plan to use a 6vdc power supply (worst case, I'll use the wall wort). All other control voltage will come from the BCS outputs or the BCS +5Vdc terminal.

Don't worry about looking at this tonight. I don't have visio on this PC, and I have shut the other one down already. I'll re-work the drawing tomorrow.

Nice catch on the drawing... thanks.

Good luck with the brew!

Ed

tpgsr said:

For your e-stop, you will want to place it before EVERYTHING on the control circuit. I can send you a 22.5mm e-stop with a normally closed contact block on it if it will help you to see what you are working with. I also have an enclosure if you want it outside of the main panel.

Click to expand...

tpgsr,

I haven't forgotten your earlier input. Once I get the drawing straightened out, I thought I would contact you to see if you could help me source some stuff.

Off the top of my head, some things I know I need;
Switches, 50amp Double Pole Contactor, Terminal Strips, Pilot Lights, SSRs & Heatsinks for the heat elements, maybe Fuses & holders.

I have 2 enclosures, a 16" x 16" slant top, and a 10" x 12". Today I received six 8amp ssrs.

Thanks for taking a look...

Ed

I have lots of din rail and terminal blocks I can send you, the other stuff will ahve to be a bit more specific once you have it all locked down.

Thanks Ed,
You know it's deserving... I usually adjust my beersmith mash profile for a thin mash but tonight I decided to thick mash it like it suggests. Stuck mash, with a RIMS it's a real ***** on a 75 minute mash. Stirring with one hand, adjusting the element outputs in the other. draining to the BK now...

As far as the E-stop goes. You will need one NC contact on it. Run 120 from one on of your legs to one side of the contact, then run the other side of the contact to the coil of the contactor. Then run neutral to the other side of the coil. (Make sure you pick up L1 or L2 BEFORE it goes into the contactor, on the supply side.)

Then you will run the supply side of L1 and L2 into one side of each contact, then run the other sides to their respective distribution blocks.

So when you hit the E-stop, the NC contact opens, causing the coil to denergize, opening the contactor, which kills everything attached to the distribution blocks.

Just started the boil... going to be a long night.

CodeRage said:

Thanks Ed,
You know it's deserving... I usually adjust my beersmith mash profile for a thin mash but tonight I decided to thick mash it like it suggests. Stuck mash, with a RIMS it's a real ***** on a 75 minute mash. Stirring with one hand, adjusting the element outputs in the other. draining to the BK now...

As far as the E-stop goes. You will need one NC contact on it. Run 120 from one on of your legs to one side of the contact, then run the other side of the contact to the coil of the contactor. Then run neutral to the other side of the coil. (Make sure you pick up L1 or L2 BEFORE it goes into the contactor, on the supply side.)

Then you will run the supply side of L1 and L2 into one side of each contact, then run the other sides to their respective distribution blocks.

So when you hit the E-stop, the NC contact opens, causing the coil to denergize, opening the contactor, which kills everything attached to the distribution blocks.

Just started the boil... going to be a long night.

Click to expand...

Had a late meeting so I just got home... no work on beer related stuff tonight. But, I gotta ask... what the hell are you doing starting a boil at 11:45 pm?

Hope your night turned around last night and the brew finished well.

I'm gonna try to post my updated drawing tomorrow but had a thought... If I end up using SSR's on the 220 elements, should the 5Vdc control to the relays be in series, or parallel?

Thanks as always,
Ed

I'd say it was a late meeting.

Lol, if you haven't noticed Im a bit of a night owl. Usually the only time I get to brew is once the rug rat is in bed. We moved him from his crib to his toddler bed around Christmas. I think I have cut a groove in the hardwood floors from having to get up and bust him sneaking out of bed every 30 seconds. So I got a later start than usual, and I was in one of those come hell or high water moods. The new CFC saved me a ton of time though. Fermenter was full at 1:05 and the brewery was soaking in hot PBW 20 minutes later. It's going to be a DRY pale ale, spent a lot of time in the 140s. It is what it is.

Yeah, you got the control wiring right in the last drawing, parallel. If you wire them in series you start dividing the voltage up, so for 2 SSRs it would look like 2.5V at each coil.

Something I would like to add. Though it was sticking like mofo, the 4500W RIMs heater was nice! Pol, you're going to be happy. If you plan on doing any step mashes you may want to make provisions for a 240v element there. 1500W will do you just fine maintaining a single mash temp.

CodeRage said:

I'd say it was a late meeting.

Lol, if you haven't noticed Im a bit of a night owl. Usually the only time I get to brew is once the rug rat is in bed. We moved him from his crib to his toddler bed around Christmas. I think I have cut a groove in the hardwood floors from having to get up and bust him sneaking out of bed every 30 seconds. So I got a later start than usual, and I was in one of those come hell or high water moods. The new CFC saved me a ton of time though. Fermenter was full at 1:05 and the brewery was soaking in hot PBW 20 minutes later. It's going to be a DRY pale ale, spent a lot of time in the 140s. It is what it is.

Yeah, you got the control wiring right in the last drawing, parallel. If you wire them in series you start dividing the voltage up, so for 2 SSRs it would look like 2.5V at each coil.

Something I would like to add. Though it was sticking like mofo, the 4500W RIMs heater was nice! Pol, you're going to be happy. If you plan on doing any step mashes you may want to make provisions for a 240v element there. 1500W will do you just fine maintaining a single mash temp.

Click to expand...

It wasn't a work related meeting so I can deal with it.

I did notice you seem to be on late... I just never thought about brewing that late. Started a brew after work (about 5pm) one time and that was enough. The brewing wasn't so bad, but the cleanup was like torture.

I updated the attached drawing to reflect the BCS power supply (nice catch, thanks). I also put in components for the e-stop but I have to say, I don't think it is right, and I really am having trouble getting my head around it.

I'm hoping it will be easier to wire than for me to draw?

My thoughts on the 1500watt rims heater;
The new rig is going to have a 50amp plug, therefore not very portable. Right now, I brew off site quite a bit. While I can't take the new rig with me... I'm thinking I could take the RIM's heater and continue to use my current PID setup for portablity. The elements in the HLT & BK are removeable so I can heat with propane if needed. I'd like to make sure I can still brew with a 15amp receptacle.

Ed

View attachment Visio-Panel v3.pdf

I either forgot or didn't know about that requirement but it makes perfect sense.

Now I see why you were getting confused about the E-stop. The circuit you used was a half stop start circuit with an E-stop. (The drawing you got it from, you need the rung blow it too.)

Where you have CR1 it should be a regular relay. When you press the momentary start button it allows R1 to energize. Because R1 is using a set of NO contacts to energize it self, it will stay on when you release the start button. This allows you to plug the brewery in and it not power up right away until you are ready. This is what is called a latch circuit.

Now you will wire from one of the Lines(Before the E-STOP disconnect) to the second set of NO contacts on R1. You will then run the other side of those contacts to the coil of your E-STOP CR coil. On the other side of the coil, wire it to Neutral.

Now when R1 energizes, it will energize the coil of the E-STOP CR causing it to close and powering up the brewery.

When you press the E-STOP button it break the power to R1 causing the R1 contacts to open. Which causes the E-STOP CR to open. The system will not start again until you unlock the E-STOP button and the press the start button again. The E-STOP is the reset portion of the latch.

You could just use the E-STOP button power the E-STOP CR directly. The reason why this isn't normally done is because some one may panic and repeatedly hit the E-STOP, possibly reset it, which would cause the brewery to power up again. The other is if something went wrong with the locking mechanism of the E-STOP the system would stay powered down, even if the E-STOP button resets it self.

for the relay, look for an octal based ice cube relay.
Like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALLEN-BRADLEY-7...aultDomain_0?hash=item563836b0f2#ht_500wt_956
and the base
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-RELAY-SOCKE...QQ_trkparmsZalgo=MW&its=C&itu=UCC&otn=5&ps=63

I'm pretty sure that I'm stupid.
I "think", maybe with any luck, I finally have the E-Stop figured out. I had to draw boxes around the "components" so I could try to understand the pieces involved.

I read you description a dozen times and looked all over the net for examples, but until I drew it and followed it, it really didn't sink in. With any luck I have the logic and the components right.

Please take a look and see if I have the attached drawing correct.

I know it's not a proper ladder diagram, but hopefully you can follow my twisted logic.

Thanks

Ed

View attachment Visio-Panel v3.5.pdf

Ohio-Ed said:

I'm pretty sure that I'm stupid.
I "think", maybe with any luck, I finally have the E-Stop figured out. I had to draw boxes around the "components" so I could try to understand the pieces involved.

I read you description a dozen times and looked all over the net for examples, but until I drew it and followed it, it really didn't sink in. With any luck I have the logic and the components right.

Please take a look and see if I have the attached drawing correct.

I know it's not a proper ladder diagram, but hopefully you can follow my twisted logic.

Thanks

Ed

Click to expand...

It's a winner! pick a prize from the top shelf young man.

CodeRage said:

It's a winner! pick a prize from the top shelf young man.

Click to expand...

Getting this right is a reflection on you, more than me...
Thank you very much for your patience and help.

I really wanted to understand HOW this was going to work as opposed to be told something like "Run the blue wire from X to terminal 2 on Y". I may still need that when I get my hands on the physical components, but now I understand the logic behind it.

Next step is to identify & size components and try to source them.

Thanks again,

Ed

CodeRage said:

...
You could just use the E-STOP button power the E-STOP CR directly. The reason why this isn't normally done is because some one may panic and repeatedly hit the E-STOP, possibly reset it, which would cause the brewery to power up again. The other is if something went wrong with the locking mechanism of the E-STOP the system would stay powered down, even if the E-STOP button resets it self.
...

Click to expand...

Given your caveats, this E-Stop w/ key should work connecting to the contactor directly, correct? Just tap the L2 line to the e-stop then to Contactor1 then to N (gnd) (and remove the PB and Relay1)? I would wire it so that the E-Stop would have to be pulled to provide power to the contactor and pushed to kill power.

Not a problem Ed. Once you fire it up and get to see it, it's all going to just click in your head.

Baron ken said:

Given your caveats, this E-Stop w/ key should work connecting to the contactor directly, correct? Just tap the L2 line to the e-stop then to Contactor1 then to N (gnd) (and remove the PB and Relay1)? I would wire it so that the E-Stop would have to be pulled to provide power to the contactor and pushed to kill power.

Click to expand...

Yes it would work, and wouldn't be a bad one to use with the stop/start circuit either. You couldn't start the brewery until some one unlocked the E-stop button. You would use the NC contact to drive the start relay or contactor depending on the circuit you used. You could use the NO contact to tell the BCS or what not that the E-STOP button is active.

Another question for you guys...
On the fuses for the 5500 watt elements; since I am putting a fuse on each leg L1 & L2, will 20 amp fast acting fuses work? I have some 1/4" glass fuses and holders. If not can I use a 30 amp delay? (they are available in 1/4", but fast acting aren't).

Also, as drawn, I have the fuses in front of the SSR's, should they actually be between the SSRs and the elements & pumps?

Thanks
Ed

5500W is ~23 amps. So those 20A fuses wont work. You can get Bussman fuses in 30A FB. http://www.lowes.com/pd_286568-7369...catorDisplayView&selectedLocalStoreBeanArray=[com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean@47fb5e00,+com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean@47c41e00,+com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean@448b1e00,+com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean@44f41e00,+com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean@44d59e00]&NttParam=&Ntt=30+amp+fuse&isQvSearch=searchQV&URL=TopCategoriesDisplayView&langId=-1&langId=-1&mastheadURL=TopCategoriesDisplayView&storeId=10151&storeId=10151&Ntk=i_products&qvRedirect=/pd_286568-73694-BP%2525252FNON-30_0_%3FproductId%3D1269485%26Ntt%3D30+amp+fuse%26Ntk%3Di_products&ddkey=http:CategoryDisplay

I would put them before the SSR, preferably right after the power distribution. The element really isnt going to draw extra current unless it some how manages to conduct straight to the wort. In that case the element is dead any how. Other than that, what will pop the fuse is something causing a short in your wiring which will not burn up the element. In both scenarios you are likely to damage the SSR and or wire with out a fuse.

As for the pump, putting the fuse before the SSR would save the SSR too. Personally I put the fuse as far ahead of the load as possible.

CodeRage said:

5500W is ~23 amps. So those 20A fuses wont work. You can get Bussman fuses in 30A FB.
I would put them before the SSR, preferably right after the power distribution. The element really isnt going to draw extra current unless it some how manages to conduct straight to the wort. In that case the element is dead any how. Other than that, what will pop the fuse is something causing a short in your wiring which will not burn up the element. In both scenarios you are likely to damage the SSR and or wire with out a fuse.

As for the pump, putting the fuse before the SSR would save the SSR too. Personally I put the fuse as far ahead of the load as possible.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick response.

I was hoping I might be able to find a 30A FB, 1/4" glass fuse (automotive type) because I already have some fuse holders. McMaster has them in Delay but not FB.

A quick google search looks like they are out there...

I have some of the pieces and would love to get started as soon as possible.