Quest to brew my perfect beer

I got an idea recently for a personal brew quest that will last me for at least the next year or so. My idea is to brew basically the same recipe over and over, changing only one or two variables each time. My hope is that this will really increase my knowledge as to how each aspect of brewing can really affect the final outcome. One time I might just change the hops. The next time I might change the yeast. Another time I might mash at a different temperature or use a different water profile... you get the idea. I'll probably brew up a new version every two weeks or so.

Obviously since I'm going to be brewing a very similar beer many times, I wanted to pick something I really enjoy drinking and has a lot of flexibility in terms of ingredients. Given my love for beers like Sierra Nevada Pale and Three Floyd's Alpha King, I'm going with an American Pale Ale. Eventually I hope to brew my own favorite beer ever.

I decided I'd post each recipe here and make notes on how each version turns out. I'm doing all grain... and I will point out that I do stove-top BIAB. I've done six batches using this method during the last several months and they've been turning out pretty well. And I live in an apartment and BIAB is just the way for me to go for now. I get about 75% efficiency every time.

So here's the first version of my pale ale. I'm going to dub it Landlord's Pale Ale because my landlord- who lives below me and the SWMBO- seems to hate the fact that we brew in his building. I brewed this up the other day and it is currently fermenting away. I'll post a picture and tasting notes once it is ready to drink. So here it is, version 1.

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Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Washed Wyeast 1098 British Ale with starter
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.25
Original Gravity: 1.051
Final Gravity: 1.011 (predicting)
IBU: 33.4
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 5.9
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 21 days at 66

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 62.18 %
3.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 31.09 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.18 %
0.15 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 1.55 %

1.00 oz Cascade [7.50 %] (60 min) Hops 26.1 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [7.50 %] (10 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [7.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [7.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops

Mash at 152 for 60 minutes.
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So as you can see, this is a pretty straightforward recipe. I decided to start with an all Cascade version so I can really play around with the hops on future versions and get a really clear idea on how they change the taste and aroma. I haven't been brewing all that long, and I'm hoping this "project" will really increase my skills. And in the very least, I'll get to drink the results of all this experimentation.

Looks good- it looks very much like my "house pale ale", an all-cascade beer that I just love. I think playing with a few variables is a great idea!

I've started a similar quest. I just got tired of trying something new every time, often with some experimental aspect. It usually ended in good beer, but sometimes you just want a normal easy-drinking solid beer. So I'm currently working on perfecting a best bitter and I just started my attempt at perfecting an american pale. Like you, I'll keep brewing it over and over, fixing whatever I feel can be improved each time until I arrive at recipes that perfectly suit my tastes. Good luck with your attempt!

YooperBrew said:

Looks good- it looks very much like my "house pale ale", an all-cascade beer that I just love. I think playing with a few variables is a great idea!

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Oh yes! I definitely got inspiration from looking at the recipes on this forum- including yours and EdWort's Haus Pale Ale. I think the first thing I'll tinker with in upcoming versions will be the hops- especially the late addition and dry. After that I'll probably alter the crystal malts a few times.

KingBrianI said:

I've started a similar quest. I just got tired of trying something new every time, often with some experimental aspect. It usually ended in good beer, but sometimes you just want a normal easy-drinking solid beer. So I'm currently working on perfecting a best bitter and I just started my attempt at perfecting an american pale. Like you, I'll keep brewing it over and over, fixing whatever I feel can be improved each time until I arrive at recipes that perfectly suit my tastes. Good luck with your attempt!

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Keep us all posted on your results! I have to say I think you've already done a great job with the esb. I've brewed up your recipe a couple times now and the most recent one is probably the best beer I've made. Oh, and that pumpkin ale is almost ready to bottling.

that looks like a solid recipe. similar to an IPA I made. i mashed at 149 because I wanted it pretty dry - and it was.

probably won't take many iterations

BmillaTheBrewzilla said:

Keep us all posted on your results! I have to say I think you've already done a great job with the esb. I've brewed up your recipe a couple times now and the most recent one is probably the best beer I've made. Oh, and that pumpkin ale is almost ready to bottling.

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The best bitter I'm working on will be a completely different beer than the ESB. It's lighter, drier, and less hoppy, but I really like where it's going. I'm targeting the kind of bitters you get off the handpump in pubs in England and it's very close.

I think you're really going to enjoy that pumpkin ale. Should be drinking great by the time the season starts to turn.

great idea, i would personally start by keeping everything the same, and just changes the hops, time after time. I have brewed maybe 30 batches and I am just now starting to understand what all the various malts and hops bring to the table.....


Another great experiment is to keep all the same, and just change the yeast. Vastly different beers....

Excellent idea. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

BmillaTheBrewzilla said:

I got an idea recently for a personal brew quest that will last me for at least the next year or so.

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Best of luck, enjoy the ride! I'll be following along because I'd like to do the same thing sometime. I got to find a way to increase the frequency of brewing, somehow, someway, eh?

However, are you really going to notice the fraction of C40 in this one?

Yeah, that looks like a very solid place to start. Personally, being that I'm not too adventurous with yeast, I should probably do something like this as well to discover new strains that I'd like.

Good luck,
J

14thstreet said:

However, are you really going to notice the fraction of C40 in this one?

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Good observation- I doubt it will be very noticeable. My homebrew store sells crystal malts in 1 lb packages, and I had some of the 40 left over from a previous batch, so I threw it in. In the versions coming up- where my main focus is going to changes to the hops- I'll probably just stick to one color of crystal and make it the same in each batch. Since I mainly used 20L on this first one, I'll probably stick to that in future batches... maybe bumping it up to .75 lbs of 20L to try to keep the color pretty close to this first batch. BeerSmith says that removing the C40 and upping the C20 to .75lb would change my color from 5.9 to 5.7. I figure the difference will be minimal and I'll still be able to notice differences from changing the hops.

As part of the big picture, I think I'll mess with the hops first, then the grains, then yeasts with different characteristics, then water.

So- thinking about the hops... does anyone have any good suggestions for another type of hop I can combine with Cascade that would blend well and make a noticable difference to the taste and aroma? I was thinking about Amarillo, but I've used that a lot and I feel like I already have a pretty good idea about what it brings to the table (although I've never used it in a combo with Cascade). I've also used Centennial quite a bit, but also only by itself. I've never used any of the other American hops like Columbus, Simcoe, or Chinook.

Simcoe is an awesome late addition hop. Definitely experiment with that one. And I love chinook for bittering. It's got a tingly kind of harshness to it that doesn't sound like it would be very good but it really is. I've only used columbus once for a houblon chouffe clone and it is coming through with a little bit of a weirdness in the beer, but it seems like others have had good success with it.

Simcoe is an awesome late addition hop

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I've read a lot about the Simcoe / Amarillo combo. I'm planning on doing a version with just those two hops. I definitely want to experiment with all sorts of combos to try to get a nice complex hop flavor and aroma.

And I love chinook for bittering. It's got a tingly kind of harshness to it that doesn't sound like it would be very good but it really is

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Similar at all to Centennial? I've noticed that Centennial has a certain "bite" to it that just gets more awesome as you keep drinking a beer made with it. I've noticed this in my own beers and with Bells Two Hearted.

I figured the C40 was leftover grains, and I'm not harpin' on ya.

I've heard Willamette can enhance C-hops. I've never tried it in comparison but this might be a good time to try especially with the recipe you have.

BmillaTheBrewzilla said:

I've read a lot about the Simcoe / Amarillo combo. I'm planning on doing a version with just those two hops. I definitely want to experiment with all sorts of combos to try to get a nice complex hop flavor and aroma.



Similar at all to Centennial? I've noticed that Centennial has a certain "bite" to it that just gets more awesome as you keep drinking a beer made with it. I've noticed this in my own beers and with Bells Two Hearted.

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It's quite different from centennial. I know exactly what you're talking about with centennial and in two hearted. Chinook has even more "bite", and it hits in a different way. It's kind of rough, but I love it. I know I've been talking about it a lot lately, but if you've had celebration ale, you'll get that chinook bitterness. That beer is a great example of what chinook does for a bittering addition. Stone beers use it too, but I don't think their execution showcases it nearly as well as SNCA.

this is THE way to brew in my opinion, I've been working on my helles for about 3 years and i'm getting real close to where i want it... finally . I need a bigger fridge so i can do more than 2 lagers at once =[. you're going to learn a LOT about the nuances in recipes and your process, have fun!

if you brew every two weeks you are going to have a hell of a lot of pale ale sounds good!

markg388 said:

this is THE way to brew in my opinion, I've been working on my helles for about 3 years and i'm getting real close to where i want it... finally . I need a bigger fridge so i can do more than 2 lagers at once =[. you're going to learn a LOT about the nuances in recipes and your process, have fun!

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I agree that this is a great idea. I've been brewing for 8 months or so and have made a lot of different types of beer, of varying successes. Now that i've got my system down it's time to really learn how to make the 3 or 4 types of beer I really enjoy. This is part of the beauty of homebrewing for me...slight variations of the same great beer month after month.

Would be interesting to read someone's longterm log of this type of process with a few brews. Good luck!

Time for Version 2! I'm brewing tonight and have spent a lot of time thinking about how this version will differ from the first one. I'm basically keeping everything the same, but I am using Chinook and Cascade this time. The hop schedule will look like this:

Chinook (60 min)
Chinook (10 min)
Cascade (5 min)
Chinook and Cascade (flame out)
Chinook and Cascade (dry hop)

I'm using BeerSmith to try to try to keep the overall bitterness similar to Version 1, although this one will be a tiny bit higher becuase of the high AA of the Chinook.

I'm also changing the yeast. In V1 I used some washed yeast that I had ready to go. In V2 I'm using Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II). Why? Have you read Wyeast's description of that yeast? How could I not want to try it? I have a big starter going and will wash this one and probably use it as my regular yeast for at least the next several versions of this experiment. At any rate, the main thing I'm looking for between these first two versions is how the Chinook affects the flavor and aroma of the beer.

I'm thinking V3 may be Simcoe/Amarillo... And I'll be sampling Version 1 in a few weeks!

Alright, quick update on Version 2. I went to my LHBS yesterday to get some of the ingredients I needed and they were out of Chinook! So I went with a Simcoe/Cascade combo instead. So I followed the hop schedule listed in my last post, just replacing any Chinook addition with Simcoe. It was my first experience with Simcoe, and WOW- crazy aroma. I'm really looking forward to this one.

I brewed the same APA recipe 7 times only changing the hops. I tried my best to keep the IBUs the same, and also not mess up my process. You will be surprised how different these hops are. I used Cascade, Centennial, Columbus, Chinook, Amarillo, Simcoe, and Citra. The Citra didn't work so well as a stand alone hop. I can see using Simcoe as an aroma hop, but I wasn't too happy with the flavor of it. Maybe if it was mixed with something else for flavor. By far the favorite was Centennial and Chinook. Cascade and Columbus were liked too. I was surprised that not many liked the Amarillo. I have used them a lot with Cascade, but by themselves they weren't very good. I am fermenting a Chinook/Centennial APA right now and hoping for a great beer. I really liked the orange flavor that Simcoe gave a previous beer, so I will we keep trying with those. Citra? Well, I want to make a Torpedo clone one day, so I will use those there. Good luck. Keep us posted. I think these experiments are the best way to learn the ingredients and the process.

This is an awesome way to learn new brew things. Im on version 6.2 of my house APA according to my notes Im on my 12th or 13th batch and somewhere along the ways I moved from 5 gallon to 10g to 15g batches, stopped bottle conditioning, and incorporated allgrain. Having one recipe to repeat is a great exscuse to do small changes and learn new things.

eanmcnulty said:

By far the favorite was Centennial and Chinook.

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Interesting- I may try that combination for my next version, since I wanted to use Chinook on V2. Which did you use as the bittering hop? Did you split the two pretty evenly on the late additions? Any dry hopping? Thanks for all the good ideas!

Here is my recipe. It is still in the fermenter. I will bottle it next week, and let you know how it initially tastes, but it will be at least three weeks before a real tasting.
I used the Chinook for bittering and some flavor at 20min. Then I used Centennial at 10min and flameout.
This is for a 2.5 Gallon batch. I mash in a 5g cooler and boil in a 4g pot. It is No Sparge, so my mash efficiency is only around 65%. I dry hopped once with an SNPA clone, but I have been somewhat rigid in the experiments to learn the flavors. I am working on my own perfect pale ale, and I tend to begin simply. I will work with these hops in different ways, and I will probably dry hop too eventually. Adding the Vienna and Carafoam are new to my pale recipe too. Let me know how you use your hops. I hope it turns out well!

4.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 68.73 %
0.82 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) 14.09 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) 8.59 %
0.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) 8.59 %
0.25 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) 22.9 IBU
0.25 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (20 min).9 IBU
0.25 oz Centennial [9.90 %] (10 min) 6.3 IBU
0.25 oz Centennial [9.90 %] (0 min)
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min)
1/2 Pkgs US-05

Estimated OG 1.054, Measured OG 1.053
Estimated FG 1.016, Measured FG: ???
Estimated ABV 5.02 %
Bitterness: 43.1 IBU
Estimated Color: 7.7 SRM

Oh yeah, GO HAWKS!

Update time! And it is an exciting update for me!

So this weekend I took 46 bottles from Version 1 of this pale ale to a homebrew competition here in Chicago. It wasn't a really big competition, it was actually a homebrew competition / concert fundraiser type deal. But it was really well attended and there were about 30 batches of homebrew representing. Beers were split into two very broad categories: light and dark. There were a little over 20 beers in the light category, including my pale ale. Throughout the night I got tons of very nice words about my beer and I felt pretty good about that. Then at the end of the night the awards were announced. A panel of judges gave a trophy for the best "light" beer and the best "dark" beer. And well... take a look!

That's the trophy for best light beer in my apartment! And next to it is the brew! Heck yeah!

Version 1 was an all-cascade version. I posted the recipe when I started this thread. It is really nice, balanced, and pretty simple. It is easy drinking and has some nice (but mild) hop aroma from the dry hopping. I like the slight sweetness and color that I think is the result of the vienna. I had never used vienna prior to this recipe. There is a SLIGHT amount of bitterness at the end of a sip, but it really is easy drinking. The beer is really clear, much clearer than it looks in the picture (I haven't figured out how to take good pictures of beer yet ).

Now, I still think there is a long way to go before I get to my perfect pale ale. I'd like a little more complexity from the hops. I also think I'd like some more maltiness. So my final recipe will definitely include more hops (and more than one type of hop) and probably a darker crystal malt or two in an attempt to add some more layers of flavor.

I bottled Version 2 a couple weeks ago and will be cracking open a bottle soon to report on it. It includes Simcoe and Cascade and it tasted and smelled frickin' awesome when I was bottling.

Version 3 is finishing up in a bucket right now. I went a little overboard on the hops for that one after reading some posts about someone's attempt to brew a Half Acre Daisy Cutter clone. Version 3 includes Simcoe, Amarillo, Columbus, Sterling, and Willamette.

My LHBS has been out of Chinook each of the last couple times I've gone. I'd like to try that out- maybe in combination with Centennial and/or Cascade and/or something else.

Anyway, for now- I'm enjoying my last bottle of Version 1- the award winning "best light beer."

BmillaTheBrewzilla said:

Version 1 was an all-cascade version. I posted the recipe when I started this thread. It is really nice, balanced, and pretty simple. It is easy drinking and has some nice (but mild) hop aroma from the dry hopping. I like the slight sweetness and color that I think is the result of the vienna. I had never used vienna prior to this recipe. There is a SLIGHT amount of bitterness at the end of a sip, but it really is easy drinking. The beer is really clear, much clearer than it looks in the picture (I haven't figured out how to take good pictures of beer yet ).

Now, I still think there is a long way to go before I get to my perfect pale ale. I'd like a little more complexity from the hops. I also think I'd like some more maltiness. So my final recipe will definitely include more hops (and more than one type of hop) and probably a darker crystal malt or two in an attempt to add some more layers of flavor.

I bottled Version 2 a couple weeks ago and will be cracking open a bottle soon to report on it. It includes Simcoe and Cascade and it tasted and smelled frickin' awesome when I was bottling.

Version 3 is finishing up in a bucket right now. I went a little overboard on the hops for that one after reading some posts about someone's attempt to brew a Half Acre Daisy Cutter clone. Version 3 includes Simcoe, Amarillo, Columbus, Sterling, and Willamette.

My LHBS has been out of Chinook each of the last couple times I've gone. I'd like to try that out- maybe in combination with Centennial and/or Cascade and/or something else.

Anyway, for now- I'm enjoying my last bottle of Version 1- the award winning "best light beer."

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BMilla,

Which competition did you enter and how did you find it? I've been trying to find some in the Chicago area, but haven't had much luck. I'd love to enter some beers to get some feedback on how I'm doing.

It was called Brew Not Bombs. It was a fundraiser that was centered around the homebrew competition and live music. I am quite sure it was not sanctioned by any homebrew association, but it was sponsored by Brew and Grow, which was awesome... because that's where I get most of my stuff. I heard about it from a friend, so I looked up the website and emailed the person in charge. It looks to be an annual event- this was year three.

I'm looking for other homebrewers who live in the city to swap samples with. Let me know if you're interested.

Bmilla, congrats! That's awesome!
I am using Vienna in a Spotted Cow clone. I really like it. I'm going to try some in a pale.

Bmilla, you must be proud, congratulations! Nice big trophy and you already want to tweak the recipe. What a homebrewer!

Time for another update. Version 2 is now very drinkable and delicious. It is basically like Version 1 but instead of all Cascade it is a combo of Cascade and Simcoe.

The Simcoe definitely adds some more tropical / citrus flavor and aroma compared to the all Cascade version. I like it a lot! It has a nice firm bitter finish without being overwhelming. Like Version 1, it is highly drinkable and balanced.

Version 3- which uses a combo of five hop varieties- is almost one week since bottling. I'm excited for V3 and will post my review in a couple weeks when I'm pounding them down!