70 qt. cooler for 5 gallon batch

I went ahead and bought a Coleman Extreme 70 qt cooler based on three things: what I read in the cooler threads, the fact that I will make an occasional big beer, and when I trust myself, 10 gallon batches.

My question; did I screw myself, or can I use this for 5 gallons as well? I will batch sparge, but was thinking of grain bed depth.

I have already modified it so returning is not an option. I didn't know the lid was already insulated, but after drilling a hole, I added some Great Stuff. It turns out that there were some pockets that did not have factory insulation in them since I put quite a bit of the can in there.

For batch sparging it works fine for me. Greatly improved over my old 48qt cooler. I don't believe that grain bed depth is a significant factor when batch sparging. I didn't notice any change in efficiency when I switched coolers. My 5 gallon batches have been down as low as about 10lbs of grain with no issues.

With batch sparging you will be fine. I use the 80qt and have had no problems. Also when you do go to 10 gal you will be happy you had the bigger cooler.

Thanks for the info! Do you guys use a braid or copper in the bottom?

I have a 3/4" dia copper manifold

I use a braid in my coleman.

Just did my first AG this past weekend using the 70qt coleman extreme with a braid. Added ~2.6 gal water @ 185F to cooler to let it preheat. When it dropped to ~166F after a few minutes I added 8.25 lbs. grain and stirred thoroughly. It settled around 152F (I was shooting for 154F). I put a couple of old towels on top of the cooler and let is sit with a temp probe in it for 60 mins. Here are some data points:
4.1 degree temp loss after 60 mins.
I'm guessing I didn't use hot enough water for the preheat and probably didn't let it sit long enough during the preheat.

I'm thinking I may fill the cooler lid with Great Stuff to help insulate.

I normally do 10 gal batches, but went with a 5 gal batch this time since it was my first AG and also it was a new style (Mild) I wanted to try. I'm guessing the cooler will do better with a 10 gal batch due to more grain and water to retain the heat. We'll see.

Looks like this Mild may finish drier than expected (due to lower/dropping mash temp), but it should still be tasty!

Baron ken said:

Just did my first AG this past weekend using the 70qt coleman extreme with a braid. Added ~2.6 gal water @ 185F to cooler to let it preheat. When it dropped to ~166F after a few minutes I added 8.25 lbs. grain and stirred thoroughly. It settled around 152F (I was shooting for 154F). I put a couple of old towels on top of the cooler and let is sit with a temp probe in it for 60 mins. Here are some data points:

Code:

 0 min 152.2F
12 min 151.9F
20 min 151.2F
50 min 148.5F
60 min 148.1F

4.1 degree temp loss after 60 mins.
I'm guessing I didn't use hot enough water for the preheat and probably didn't let it sit long enough during the preheat.

I'm thinking I may fill the cooler lid with Great Stuff to help insulate.

I normally do 10 gal batches, but went with a 5 gal batch this time since it was my first AG and also it was a new style (Mild) I wanted to try. I'm guessing the cooler will do better with a 10 gal batch due to more grain and water to retain the heat. We'll see.

Looks like this Mild may finish drier than expected (due to lower/dropping mash temp), but it should still be tasty!

Click to expand...

Good info. Actually though, it may not be as dry as you think. Most of the starch conversion probably took place in the first 20 mins when you were at 152 or so. I think in order to get the higher fermentables, you have to start at the lower temp otherwise, they break down at the higher temp into less fermentable sugars even if the temp lowers...I think anyway.

But that's good to know. I also got the 70QT Coleman Extreme, but I have yet to use it on a 5 gallon batch because I love my 5 gallon rubbermaid cooler so much. Plus my double sparge method seems to get really good numbers for me. Oh well.

I have braid in mine.

Ahoy hoy,
Interesting post, as I am in the process of again modding my 70 qt.
I love this cooler, it works great for anything I care to do. My manifold is made of cpvc combined with 6 pieces of stainless steel sleaving, aka bazooka screen. In essence, all the Ts, and the 90s are cpvc, connected via bazooka tubes. I used brass fittings and a threaded brass nipple to perfectly go through the hole left after i pulled the factory drain plug. Put a spigot on the outside, inside connects to the manifold. This has worked flawless for me, never a stuck sparge, knock particle board. Today I just received via mail, my latest ebay order, which was 2 sheets of 347 Aerospace Grade Perforated Stainless Steel. The Sheet Measures 11" X 13" (One Square Inch Under a Full Square Foot ),
it is .016 Thick,
Holes are .055 in Diameter and are on .090 Centers 30% Open.
They together, will be my new false bottom to set on top of the manifold. Im sure it will make for an even better mash, and draining of. Once I get some photos of it all together, Ill at least try to get them up on my blog. Till then heres a pic of the SS sheeting.
I bid you all a great day.

I use this cooler for a MLT and it does the job well. One think I found is that there is quite a bit space between the grain bed and the lid and I think this empty area caused me to lose some temperature during the mash. For future brews I am going to build a cover for the grain bed out of blue board insulation covered in aluminum foil. That should do the trick.

I am finishing up my manifold for my 62 Coleman Extreme. I noticed that it seemed rather large but another member who saw it said it should work fine. I am also looking ahead and figured why get another cooler in a bit when I want to go 10 gallon batches.

If I can get the fittings at the bulkhead right, I should be using it a few times this weekedn.

Ahoy hoy,
Now that Im home, Ive access to my photos. Heres a few shots of the manifold, the new stainless steel false bottom I just fabricated, and the spigot.
Enjoy, and I bid you a great day

Medo said:

Ahoy hoy,
Now that Im home, Ive access to my photos. Heres a few shots of the manifold, the new stainless steel false bottom I just fabricated, and the spigot.
Enjoy, and I bid you a great day

Click to expand...

That looks interesting. What size ball valve and nipple do people use? 3/8" or 1/2"

I just finished my second Coleman xtreme conversion today, and I used 1/2" ballvalves on both. My old cooler is a 30 quart, and while it works well for 5 gallon batches, I wanted something so I can make 10 gallon batches, or really big 5 gallon batches.

Very nice false bottom. How much did the material run you?

Medo said:

Ahoy hoy,
Now that Im home, Ive access to my photos. Heres a few shots of the manifold, the new stainless steel false bottom I just fabricated, and the spigot.
Enjoy, and I bid you a great day

Click to expand...

That is a cool idea but you should not have had the screen part right next to the side walls. This while fly sparging can cause channeling along the wall. The wort is going to take the path of least resistance.
But if you are only batch sparging then it's fine.
And you will want to upgrade to a ball valve. the bottling bucket valve is not going to flow fast and no way to upgrade to a pump down the road.

Ahoy hoy,
Im at work and cant remember the nipple size. I think it was 1/2 inch, and the brass adapter for the plastic spigot is a 1/2 x 3/4 if i remember correctly.
The stainless steel for the false bottom was 17 bucks for 2 11x13 inch pieces. I overlapped them an inch and trimmed them on the short side to 10.5 to fit.
I do batch sparge, so I wasnt too worried about the channeling issue. I do appreciate you pointing it out though. Ive used the manifold alone a half dozen times with great success, I only added the false bottom to make it easier for stirring without having the grain build up in the 2 areas inside the manifold area. I dont know if it will help or hinder, but Ive got an itchin to try it, so maybe tonight, Ill run a batch. If not, this weekend, im taking friday off
I bid you all a great day!

So, it is okay to get a 70qt coleman xtreme for 5 gal all grain batches? Thats the only size they have at my local walmart and I gonna convert to all grain over the winter

Yeah. 70qt is fine - even, desirable. Just recently, I had to "only" brew 3 gal of Barleywine (@1.120 OG) because, for 5 gallons, I needed well over 35 lbs of grain, and that was a no-can-do in my 48QT Igloo (rectangular).

Just did my 2nd AG yesterday (see previous post for results from 1st. I think ambient temp was low 80s F then).

Ambient temp outside was around 58F.

12.3 lbs. grain, 1.22 qts/lb = 3.75 gal strike water @ 190F for 15 mins to preheat. Open lid and stir a little to reach strike temp. After dough-in and stirring thoroughly temp is 151F. I want 150F so I foolishly open back up and stir another time. Temp now 149.8. I wrap the cooler with an old blanket (the cooler is sitting on a couple sawhorses so the bottom is exposed).

0 min: 149.8F
60 min: 141.4F

8.4F drop over 60 min. I wanted to monitor the drop, so I didn't add hot water to bring the temp up (efficiency ended up around 67%).

Anyone else having large temp drops from the 70qt Coleman Extreme?

EDIT: added link to 1st post

Baron ken said:

Just did my 2nd AG yesterday (see previous post for results from 1st. I think ambient temp was low 80s F then).

Ambient temp outside was around 58F.

12.3 lbs. grain, 1.22 qts/lb = 3.75 gal strike water @ 190F for 15 mins to preheat. Open lid and stir a little to reach strike temp. After dough-in and stirring thoroughly temp is 151F. I want 150F so I foolishly open back up and stir another time. Temp now 149.8. I wrap the cooler with an old blanket (the cooler is sitting on a couple sawhorses so the bottom is exposed).

0 min: 149.8F
60 min: 141.4F

8.4F drop over 60 min. I wanted to monitor the drop, so I didn't add hot water to bring the temp up (efficiency ended up around 67%).

Anyone else having large temp drops from the 70qt Coleman Extreme?

Click to expand...

I don't but I use 5-6 gallon of 180* water to preheat mine and I let it sit for 20 minutes with the lid closed.

I'm going to be doing some experimentation to figure out the heat capacity of this beast, since I have been having trouble hitting my strike temp even after preheating. Will let you all know what I figure out.

Saccharomyces said:

I'm going to be doing some experimentation to figure out the heat capacity of this beast, since I have been having trouble hitting my strike temp even after preheating. Will let you all know what I figure out.

Click to expand...

With my 80qt I have the beersmith set to..
Mash tun vol @ 20 gal
Mash tun weight @ 40 lbs
Mash tun material @ other
Mash tun specific heat @ .450

With those settings and preheating with 5 gallons of 180* water for 20 minutes I then set my tun temp (in the recipe) at 100*.
Beersmith will give me a strike temp between 165 and 180 (depending on grain bill and grain temp).
I hit my temps right on and have no heat loss over a 60 minute mash.

Not sure if that will help you or not.
Note: my tun is 80qt with a 3/7" copper manifold.

My first datapoint gives the specific heat of the Xtreme 70 as 0.18 cal/g*C. Seems reasonable since it's well insulated. I need more datapoints though.

Heat lost by water is heat gained by cooler. The mass of the cooler is 16# which is 7.25 kilograms. The specific heat of water is 1 cal/g*C. So if I heat 7.25 kilograms of water (7.25 liters, 1.9 gallons thanks to Google calculator) masses will conveniently cancel out. The ratio of the temp loss of water to the temp gain of the cooler is then the specific heat of the cooler to hopefully input into BeerSmith.

Broken down this way it should be easy enough for anybody else to repeat my experiment using 1.9 gallons of water.

Specific heat of cooler = (Initial water temp - water temp after 20 minutes) / (Water temp after 20 minutes - Starting cooler temp)

Saccharomyces said:

My first datapoint gives the specific heat of the Xtreme 70 as 0.18 cal/g*C. Seems reasonable since it's well insulated. I need more datapoints though.

Heat lost by water is heat gained by cooler. The mass of the cooler is 16# which is 7.25 kilograms. The specific heat of water is 1 cal/g*C. So if I heat 7.25 kilograms of water (7.25 liters, 1.9 gallons thanks to Google calculator) masses will conveniently cancel out. The ratio of the temp loss of water to the temp gain of the cooler is then the specific heat of the cooler to hopefully input into BeerSmith.

Broken down this way it should be easy enough for anybody else to repeat my experiment using 1.9 gallons of water.

Specific heat of cooler = (Initial water temp - water temp after 20 minutes) / (Water temp after 20 minutes - Starting cooler temp)

Click to expand...

wow that is all over my head. lol
But one thing I have found is that there is a lot of cooler to suck the heat out of the water. 1.9 gallons wont do a whole lot.

FSR402 said:

...With those settings and preheating with 5 gallons of 180* water for 20 minutes I then set my tun temp (in the recipe) at 100*.
Beersmith will give me a strike temp between 165 and 180 (depending on grain bill and grain temp).
I hit my temps right on and have no heat loss over a 60 minute mash.

Click to expand...

What is your preheat water's temp after 20 minutes?

Do you drain the 5 gal, then add your strike water?

Baron ken said:

What is your preheat water's temp after 20 minutes?

Do you drain the 5 gal, then add your strike water?

Click to expand...

It's down to like 140. The reason I use the 100* temp setting is because 5 gallons does not heat the whole tun. There is a lot of cooler that's not in contact with the water and I'm not willing to wait 3 hours for it all to ballance.

I do drain the 5 gallons before I add my strike water. I know some will say that it's a waste of water but I drain it into my kettel and boil it for about 15 minutes then I run it thru my CFC to clean and sanitize it. Chillers like a CFC and plate chillers are the #1 place to get an infection. 5 gallons of water and a few pounds of LP is worth it to me.

I do basically the same as FSR402. My MLT is a 7-gallon round cooler. I pre-heat it for 15 minutes with 6 gallons of water heated to about strike temp. I drain that water and save it for use later (mashout and sparge).

I used to worry that 7-gallons was too small for an MLT. But after using it for about 20 AG brews, I think its the perfect size for 5.5 gallon batches. I do get fairly high efficiency (85 - 90 percent), though, so that helps keep the grain bill reasonably small.

FSR402 said:

But one thing I have found is that there is a lot of cooler to suck the heat out of the water. 1.9 gallons wont do a whole lot.

Click to expand...

1.9 gallons contains a lot of heat, though I ignored the fact that the heat absorption rate will be a function of the area of the cooler exposed to the water. I will try the experiment again with 1.9 gallons, 3.8 gallons, and 5.7 gallons, which will keep the ratios simple but allow me to compare how significant the liquid level is in determining the amount of heat transferred.

Saccharomyces said:

1.9 gallons contains a lot of heat, though I ignored the fact that the heat absorption rate will be a function of the area of the cooler exposed to the water. I will try the experiment again with 1.9 gallons, 3.8 gallons, and 5.7 gallons, which will keep the ratios simple but allow me to compare how significant the liquid level is in determining the amount of heat transferred.

Click to expand...

Right, 1.9 gallons would only cover about 1.5 inches of the bottom of my tun thus leaving a good 10 inches of 4 walls to suck the heat out of the mash.

What would you say is about the maximum lbs of grain that a 70qt cooler can hold?

BeerPressure said:

What would you say is about the maximum lbs of grain that a 70qt cooler can hold?

Click to expand...

With a 1.25qt water/pound grain you are looking at 44 pounds. But I doubt you would get any more then 40 in there.

FSR402 said:

With a 1.25qt water/pound grain you are looking at 44 pounds. But I doubt you would get any more then 40 in there.

Click to expand...

oh, that will be plenty of space for any 5 gal brews i want to do.

BeerPressure said:

oh, that will be plenty of space for any 5 gal brews i want to do.

Click to expand...

I agree, but the problem I'm having with a 5 gal batch is the low end. Mine seems to be losing more temp (4-8F) than others (1-2F). Mine was using 8-12 lbs grain. I'll have to try a larger quantity of hotter water for a longer preheat time and see if that helps.

I know this is an old thread but I also bought this cooler and I have a very hard time keeping the temperature up when making a 5gal batch! blankets don't help, pre-heating doesn't help. There's just way too much empty space.

any idea what size cooler I should use for a 5gal batch? I generally use about 12lbs of grain.

The 10 gallon round gott cooler from home depot is a popular option. Easy and cheap to convert.

Baron ken said:

I'm thinking I may fill the cooler lid with Great Stuff to help insulate.

Click to expand...

FYI, the lid of the 70 qt. Xtreme is insulated. I've used mine for 2 10-gallon batches and haven't seen more than a 1F loss over 60 minutes.

Mobstar said:

I know this is an old thread but I also bought this cooler and I have a very hard time keeping the temperature up when making a 5gal batch! blankets don't help, pre-heating doesn't help. There's just way too much empty space.

any idea what size cooler I should use for a 5gal batch? I generally use about 12lbs of grain.

Click to expand...

Mobstar. I made a "lid" for mine to reduce head space. I took some pink rigid insulating foam and cut it out in the shape of the cooler opening. some trial and error here to get the depth that you want as the cooler is drafted (smaller at the bottom than at the top) Then I stuck that in plastic bag and taped it shut. Dont forget to put some sort of rope handle on it so you can get it out. Once you dough in and have stirred your mash and it has settled to temp push the "lid" down and it should keep better temps. I don't use mine anymore as I upgraded to HERMS system.