New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?

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ten80 said:
I might try pitching 3724 at a high temp (85F) for saison flavor, then cooling to 70F and pitching Belle saison to get good attenuation and body.
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sounds like a great plan to me. leave the 3724 at 85*F for 10 days at least. make sure the 3711 is fully active/at high krausen when you pitch the whole thing. because you're throwing in the starter beer, don't use a stir plate (or only use one for the first few hours, turn it off before fermentation is visible).

be prepared for an excellent saison :mug:
 
sweetcell said:
then add an active starter of 3711/BS.
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Very interesting! Do you make a starter for BS too? Since it's dry yeast, I'd go with a good rehydration and then in... Maybe just a little wort to let it start and then in at high krausen without shaking (dry yeast should already have enough oxygen inside)?

Cheers! :mug:
Piteko
 
piteko said:
Do you make a starter for BS too?
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yes, i did - 1 or 1.5 liters, no stir plate. the idea is to get the yeast used to alcohol and lowered pH. going straight from dormancy to an alcoholic environment is a rough transition. i also rehydrate, and then pitch into the starter. should take off really quickly, within a few hours, since there will be almost no growth (we're not seeking growth here).
 
sweetcell said:
sounds like a great plan to me. leave the 3724 at 85*F for 10 days at least. make sure the 3711 is fully active/at high krausen when you pitch the whole thing. because you're throwing in the starter beer, don't use a stir plate (or only use one for the first few hours, turn it off before fermentation is visible).

be prepared for an excellent saison :mug:
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Exactly my plan. I have a saison slated for a couple weeks from now and I will likely employ this two-pitch method.
 
Northern Brewer has a new kit (Storm the Bastille - Imperial Farmhouse Ale) that used this yeast. This is my first experience with it and I can honestly say it was the most violent fermentation I have ever seen. I took the time to make a starter from 1 packet of this stuff. Pitched last Sunday and it is still going strong almost 5 full days later. Ridiculous stuff. Can't wait to actually taste it.
 
I just tried it in a Gluten free batch of beer. It's working great, but I am not seeing the vigorous fermentation as I did the first time. It's probably the extracts sugars that I used that is making it appear different. OG 1.052 and it's in the low 1.004 area now. It made alcohol as expected, but only gave about 1 inches of bubbles. No real Krausen to speak of. The bubbles look like a lacto infection though, even though I'm positive it's not (no smell, taste like lacto) it works great, and tastes good too.
 
I originally attributed the crazy fermentation to the OS of the beer I am making (1.090) and the fact I made a starter. Then I read this thread and apparently it has a reputation. Interesting it did not do this with a gluten free. I wonder why?
 
All of my beers are gluten free, and whether allgrain or extract; my fermentations are never all that violent. They all attenuate fine, just dont make a big show about geting there.

I also have a GF Saison fermenting now with B.S., It put out a lot of sulfur during fermentation...the whole house stank for a day or two.
I plan to rack it to a secondarry this weekend, so I can let it sit for a month(to de stink) before botteling.
 
Legume said:
All of my beers are gluten free, and whether allgrain or extract; my fermentations are never all that violent. They all attenuate fine, just dont make a big show about geting there.

I also have a GF Saison fermenting now with B.S., It put out a lot of sulfur during fermentation...the whole house stank for a day or two.
I plan to rack it to a secondarry this weekend, so I can let it sit for a month(to de stink) before botteling.
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Do your gf beers take forever to ferment out? It seems like it took forever to get to this point.
 
I usually ferment 3 weeks in the primarry, then bottle.
active signs of fermentation usually stop at around the one week mark.
I am not one to test the gravity all that frequently, so I dont know how long it takes them to truly finish.
 
rhys333 said:
Just wondering if anyone's done a side-by-side with Belle Saison and WY 3711. Are they truly identical?
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I haven't done a direct side by side (it's on my list), but based on using both I wouldn't say they are identical. They're both super attenuating, but I think 3711 gives a more robust flavor profile. Belle is certainly convenient, and still gives a nice profile.
 
ChocolateMaltyBalls said:
They're both super attenuating, but I think 3711 gives a more robust flavor profile. Belle is certainly convenient, and still gives a nice profile.
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Agreed. Just brewed a saison with 3711 and the beer tastes very to style, with slight ester notes and a little spice. It appears to me that Belle saison might be a better flocculator.
 
Love this yeast. Brewed some 1.045 gravity beer and it`s already down to 1.008 a few hours under 3 days later. Just love not having to stress about fermentation temperatures. Pitched at 90 degrees since the brew day took longer than expected and I had to run to work before it got cooled down more than that and the yeast just took it in stride and got to work, no high temperature off flavors or smells detected to far whatsoever.

So question: my father is leaving the country in 11 days, is there any possibility whatsoever of me being able to bottle it in another week or so? That`ll give it some time to do a little carbing up. It`s a low gravity beer but a lot of people on this thread are talking about a long primary.
 
Bosh said:
Love this yeast. Brewed some 1.045 gravity beer and it`s already down to 1.008 a few hours under 3 days later. Just love not having to stress about fermentation temperatures. Pitched at 90 degrees since the brew day took longer than expected and I had to run to work before it got cooled down more than that and the yeast just took it in stride and got to work, no high temperature off flavors or smells detected to far whatsoever.

So question: my father is leaving the country in 11 days, is there any possibility whatsoever of me being able to bottle it in another week or so? That`ll give it some time to do a little carbing up. It`s a low gravity beer but a lot of people on this thread are talking about a long primary.
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If you don't mind rushing, sure. Bottle it up. I prefer to make sure the gravity hasn't moved in a while with that yeast, but you could get lucky. Give it a taste and see if it is done. When I've pitched it in a 1.045 beer, it finished under 1.000, though.
 
skunkfunk said:
If you don't mind rushing, sure. Bottle it up. I prefer to make sure the gravity hasn't moved in a while with that yeast, but you could get lucky. Give it a taste and see if it is done. When I've pitched it in a 1.045 beer, it finished under 1.000, though.
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Yeah my own beer is exactly 1.045. After another few days it's now at 1.004 and no way in hell am I bottling until I give this one more time after what I've heard.
 
I brew a lot of saisons, but just used this yeast for the first time. The krausen dropped after a 48 fermentation. Haven't taken a gravity reading, but that's impressive for any yeast. I am adding Brett C, but I'm waiting a couple weeks to check gravity and see if it's worth doing a secondary or just adding it at bottling.
 
I used this yeast in my second all-grain batch on Tuesday- a wheat saison (1.048 OG). Rehydrated and pitched at the temperature prescribed on the pack (don't have my records handy). It's stayed at 80 degrees since. The airlock showed activity within a couple hours of pitching...12 hours later it was going CRAZY! I've never seen such vigorous bubbling in an airlock. Today (two days later) it's still going. I look forward to seeing what the FG turns out to be. I'll post my results here.
 
Legume said:
I usually ferment 3 weeks in the primarry, then bottle.
active signs of fermentation usually stop at around the one week mark.
I am not one to test the gravity all that frequently, so I dont know how long it takes them to truly finish.
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When I raised Temps in another similar batch, the yeast came back and chewed through no problem. It seems to like Temps in the low to mid 70s while fermenting. I had it at 68°F and it stalled out. Once the temp increased, it started up again and chewed through the remaining sugars. I also gave it an extra week just to be sure.
 
hifidelity said:
I used this yeast in my second all-grain batch on Tuesday- a wheat saison (1.048 OG). Rehydrated and pitched at the temperature prescribed on the pack (don't have my records handy). It's stayed at 80 degrees since. The airlock showed activity within a couple hours of pitching...12 hours later it was going CRAZY! I've never seen such vigorous bubbling in an airlock. Today (two days later) it's still going. I look forward to seeing what the FG turns out to be. I'll post my results here.
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I took a preliminary hydrometer reading today (4th day in primary) because airlock activity had ceased. 1.001! I've never seen a hydrometer reading that low from a beer that I had brewed. My girlfriend and I can't wait to try the finished product...it's her favorite style and her first time brewing beer.
 
hifidelity said:
I took a preliminary hydrometer reading today (4th day in primary) because airlock activity had ceased. 1.001! I've never seen a hydrometer reading that low from a beer that I had brewed. My girlfriend and I can't wait to try the finished product...it's her favorite style and her first time brewing beer.
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You might need to warm that beer up a bit so the yeast will finish. My second batch seemed pretty stable at 1.002 but it continued to ferment in the bottle and is way overcarbonated. My first batch that I raised the temp to 85 on finished at 0.995.
 
RM-MN said:
You might need to warm that beer up a bit so the yeast will finish. My second batch seemed pretty stable at 1.002 but it continued to ferment in the bottle and is way overcarbonated. My first batch that I raised the temp to 85 on finished at 0.995.
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Sheeeee-it this Belle Saison is incredible. Thinking about putting in a bunch of stuff that the yeast won't eat next time so it won't get quite so dry. Will lots of Munich malt cut it?
 
secondbase said:
I brew a lot of saisons, but just used this yeast for the first time. The krausen dropped after a 48 fermentation. Haven't taken a gravity reading, but that's impressive for any yeast. I am adding Brett C, but I'm waiting a couple weeks to check gravity and see if it's worth doing a secondary or just adding it at bottling.
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I used this yeast in a saison last year knowing that I was going to add dreggs to sour it. I added bottle dreggs with Brett in them and let it sit. I opened the fermenter for the first time in almost 11 months to take a sample and the gravity was down to 1.002 and the flavor profile was great. I believe this yeast lends itself very well to having Brett added during fermentation. I am going to split the batch and add fruit to half and bottle the other half plain
 
So if you want to go against the grain of this yeast and make it NOT go crazy dry, what kind of sugars would be good to add that this crazy yeast won't eat? Just want to have it finish at 1.010 instead of 1.000.

For my Bravo/Vienna Smash just took a taste from the fermenter. Dry as a bone but not thin, just like other people have reported. When warm it has an unpleasant alcohol bite at 11 days out from pitching but after sticking a shot glass of it in the freezer to cool it down it tastes vastly better with a nice bit of fruit and spice without being overpowering. Will give it some more time to let the yeast finish up and then I'm really really looking forward to this one.
 
You will need in the range of 10% to make a difference.
But to my taste,enven down atv1.004 it had enough body.
Maybe add a little crystal and mash high?
 
Even though this yeast goes very low it does not feel thin. Just let it do what it does. Crystal malts are out of place for a good saison. You do not want a saison to finish sweet. The beauty of this yeast is that it can finish low and not feel thin.

Lactose is a terrible idea for a saison..
 
beergolf said:
Even though this yeast goes very low it does not feel thin. Just let it do what it does. Crystal malts are out of place for a good saison. You do not want a saison to finish sweet. The beauty of this yeast is that it can finish low and not feel thin.

Lactose is a terrible idea for a saison..
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+1,

you could also carb a bit higher to help mouthfeel. saisons should be dry. i like mine a bit bubbly too.
 
beergolf said:
Even though this yeast goes very low it does not feel thin. Just let it do what it does. Crystal malts are out of place for a good saison. You do not want a saison to finish sweet. The beauty of this yeast is that it can finish low and not feel thin.

Lactose is a terrible idea for a saison..
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The poster would like residual sweetness and higher gravity. Do you have any ideas how they might achieve this since its what they want?
 
rhys333 said:
The poster would like residual sweetness and higher gravity. Do you have any ideas how they might achieve this since its what they want?
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Until you taste what this yeast does you cannot predict what it is like by gravity alone. Even though the gravity goes low it still does not taste like it. I would recommend doing abrew and letting it go. Then if you want it sweeter, then you can alter it but believe me this yeast does not feeel super dry even though thw gravity is near Zero.
 
maybe mash super high, like 158-160?
if the poster wants residual sweetness, he/she should consider another yeast or another belgian style. for dry yeast maybe t-58 is what he is looking for.
 
I think that maybe what the poster was getting at,is he/she wants the flavour profile but without the high attenuation and alcohol content that goes with it.
How about an under-pitch of Belle and making up the yeast difference with another,lower attenuating yeast,with a more neutral profile?
 
i haven't experimented enough with it. mixing yeasts may work but im thinking the belle may still eat the residual sugars/dextrins that the other strain doesnt.
id say mash 155-156, lower the grain bill to account for it going to 1.005 or less regardless of what you do. maybe throw in a 1/2 lb of carapils. also keep ferm temps on the lower side.
 
For a lean beer with some sweetness then have a look at Brasserie Thiriez beers. They use a yeast very similar to French Saison (Mr Malty says it's the same but the brewmaster says otherwise)

They do an amber that's munich and pilsner and it has this lovely hit of sweetness at the start which fades quickly to dryness and it's fantastic. You could probably do similar with this yeast as it attenuates similarly low.

I don't know the exact balance but I'd imagine using all malt with maybe 70% munich and 30% pils with low hopping would do it.

They ferment at 20 rather than blasting the heat.

I'm going to try it but if anyone beats me to it tell me how it goes!
 
hopbrad said:
maybe mash super high, like 158-160?
if the poster wants residual sweetness, he/she should consider another yeast or another belgian style.
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During my brews with this yeast I managed to raise the FG from 1000 to 1002 (wow!!) raising the mash temperature from 69°C to 71°C.

Cheers from Italy! :mug:
Piteko
 
hopbrad said:
+1,

you could also carb a bit higher to help mouthfeel. saisons should be dry. i like mine a bit bubbly too.
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I've done an RIS grain bill with this yeast. Turned out okay. Fermented around 64F.

Dropping the temp doesn't seem to affect attenuation terribly much. I suppose if you don't like how it turns out you could backsweeten in the glass.
 
Just cooked up a saison today and pitched this yeast. The rumors are true: it's a beast! Krausen and bubbling away within an hour of pitching! Very excited to see how it all turns out!
 

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