3 vessel eRIMS dilemma

I'm working on converting to all electric and have run into a problem. If you are going all electric and using a rims tube, it's difficult to get away from 3 elements. With a 10 gallon system I think I will need a 240v 5500 watt hlt and kettle elements, and a a 5500 watt ru at 120 for the rims. Given that, I am fairly certain I'll need 50a at a minimum. I have space in the breaker but the 50a control panel build is a bit pricier.
Alternatively I could go with herms. I already have a good rims tube and an electric HLT isn't cheap (esp since I'm trying to go with an all spike system).
Is there a solution I am overlooking or another creative idea?
Thanks !

My 2 cents - anyone utilizing a RIMS and electric will likely use 3 elements - BK, HLT, RIMS. I think the only way around that would be to utilize your HLT as BK. Then you'd have a "HOLD" tank to hold your first runnings while sparging. Then you'd transfer that amount back to the HLT/BK. FWIW, I have 4500w/240v for HLT and BK and 2000w/240v for RIMS. I can run all three on 50 amps with room to spare for pumps and electric components.

There's lots to think about. Plan well and you will be happy.

4500W element in HLT and BK, and a 1500W (or maybe 2000W) in the RIMs. That will work on 30A circuit.

During a normal brewing session, the only time you'd have two on at the same time is during the mash (RIMS), during which you'd be heating sparge water (HLT). Those two should work fine on a 30A.

If you want to do back-to-back batches, you'll find that you'll be wanting to heat strike water for batch 2 during the boil for batch 1. That does present a problem. Easiest solution is to sparge, then heat strike water for batch 2, then get the Batch 1 boil going and Batch 2 mash going at the same time. That's probably not clear, sorry, you'll see when you get there.

stlbeer said:

My 2 cents - anyone utilizing a RIMS and electric will likely use 3 elements - BK, HLT, RIMS. I think the only way around that would be to utilize your HLT as BK. Then you'd have a "HOLD" tank to hold your first runnings while sparging. Then you'd transfer that amount back to the HLT/BK. FWIW, I have 4500w/240v for HLT and BK and 2000w/240v for RIMS. I can run all three on 50 amps with room to spare for pumps and electric components.

There's lots to think about. Plan well and you will be happy.

Click to expand...

Do you have a diagram? I kept pdf copies of all the PJ diagrams.....

I could go 50A easily I suppose. I'd like to have 2 PID - one for mash, one for BK using the EZ boil, and wired for 2 pumps in case I need to add one later. I want the panel to be able to accommodate growth or changes should I decide to go HERMS at some point.

Try 2 vessel (MT and BK). One element in kettle and your rims tube for On demand sparge water. Insulate the MT well though.

Brunson on here does it similarly.

swimIan said:

Try 2 vessel (MT and BK). One element in kettle and your rims tube for On demand sparge water. Insulate the MT well though.

Brunson on here does it similarly.

Click to expand...

I've seen that design and would love to use it but it seems a bit beyond my capabilities, specifically the use of flow meters, arduino programming, etc. I wonder if you could use 2 auber pids- one for sparge on demand and the ez boil for mash and boil.

kcinpdx said:

I could go 50A easily I suppose. I'd like to have 2 PID - one for mash, one for BK using the EZ boil, and wired for 2 pumps in case I need to add one later. I want the panel to be able to accommodate growth or changes should I decide to go HERMS at some point.

Click to expand...

50A Is easy I suppose, but it is costly. You need to start at the panel W/ a 50 A breaker and all appropriate wiring down stream, Then break it down in your panel, which means more breakers/fuses. Also the GFCI will need to be 50A as well. You may know all this already, but it came as quite a shock to me when I ran my service to the brew room. I am glad I have it now as I expand, but the original cost blew me away.

I got into brewing to save money, right?

kcinpdx said:

I've seen that design and would love to use it but it seems a bit beyond my capabilities, specifically the use of flow meters, arduino programming, etc. I wonder if you could use 2 auber pids- one for sparge on demand and the ez boil for mash and boil.

Click to expand...

You could use a pid or the dspr1 to control the heating power of the element. Then use a manual ball valve to control the flow past the element. You'd have to experiment with what flowrate and duty cycle to use though. Could be possible...

Lol. Yeah. I have the space in my breaker box but I'm starting to question why I'm bothering to go electric in the first place. Maybe I'll build a control panel and leave space for expansion, and go with electric BK and RIMS and keep using propane for the HLT for the time being. I suppose I could also get a ginormous Mash tun and go no sparge too.

I did mine a little different, I've got a 30 amp circuit for my HERMS HLT with a 5500w element and switching for my pumps, and am in the process of building a separate control panel for my BK that will be fed with a 50 amp circuit that will control a 5500w and a 4500w element in my 30 gal. BK. I'm running two separate control panels with two separate 240v circuits both are controlled with Auber Ezboil Pids.

Crazyeyes said:

I did mine a little different, I've got a 30 amp circuit for my HERMS HLT with a 5500w element and switching for my pumps, and am in the process of building a separate control panel for my BK that will be fed with a 50 amp circuit that will control a 5500w and a 4500w element in my 30 gal. BK. I'm running two separate control panels with two separate 240v circuits both are controlled with Auber Ezboil Pids.

Click to expand...

That's not a bad idea - I have a 30a (could easily be changed out to a 50a) dedicated circuit right next to a 20a plug. I could do one control panel for the RIMS and pumps (20a), the other for the HLT and BK (30a) as long as I didn't do back to back batches. THE HLT and BK elements could be on a 3 way selector switch.

And I keep going back to this no sparge idea but have no experience with it. Since I have 15 gallon kettles, I'd be limited to about a 1.060 beer. There are a lot of times I am brewing 5 gallon batches, esp. higher gravity stuff. I tend to do 10 gallons for pils, lagers, APA's. I could always keep a burner around and handy for those times when I feel a need to knock out a lot of a big beer.... Decisions, decisions....

I think it would be pretty cost effective to go with the one 30 amp circuit and for those occasions you want to go big bust out a burner if you are going back to back. Just use the burner to heat up the mash water while the electric is doing the boil on #1. My two cents....

kcinpdx said:

I've seen that design and would love to use it but it seems a bit beyond my capabilities, specifically the use of flow meters, arduino programming, etc. I wonder if you could use 2 auber pids- one for sparge on demand and the ez boil for mash and boil.

Click to expand...

I think you are referencing my rig... yes, it's not technically easy but I really do like the 2 vessel design. Using the RIMS tube in a dual voltage config makes things very convenient. I use it at 5500W for heating the mash water, mashing out, and sparging. I switch to 120V and use that resulting power (~1300W) for mashing and step mashes. No HLT tank taking up $ and space. I use plastic tanks to store RO but if my house feed water were good I wouldn't need those.

There seems to be a lot of thought that sparge temp doesn't mean much. I did a lot of work to get on demand to hit 170 using the Arduino, flowmeter, and proportional valve, but really you could do on demand and just warm the water up somewhat. If you put a 4500W or 5500W element in your RIMS depending on your ambient water temp, and just turned it on (or duty cycle, which is what I actually use) during sparge, then use your ball valve to adjust flow rate, it would be good. Get the water temp to 130 - 170 and it will be fine for a fly sparge. I am actually surprised more people haven't gone this route because it is quite easy.

Btw I switch my RIMS voltage with a relay which is automated from the controller but there is no reason you cannot use a regular 30A double pole switch to do it. That's what Bobby uses in his video to test the on-demand sparge system.

kcinpdx said:

I'm working on converting to all electric and have run into a problem. If you are going all electric and using a rims tube, it's difficult to get away from 3 elements. With a 10 gallon system I think I will need a 240v 5500 watt hlt and kettle elements, and a a 5500 watt ru at 120 for the rims. Given that, I am fairly certain I'll need 50a at a minimum. I have space in the breaker but the 50a control panel build is a bit pricier.
Alternatively I could go with herms. I already have a good rims tube and an electric HLT isn't cheap (esp since I'm trying to go with an all spike system).
Is there a solution I am overlooking or another creative idea?
Thanks !

Click to expand...

I have a 30a circuit. I use a 5500w element in my BK a 2000w rims element (at 240v) and a 4500w element in my HLT I also run my control panel and all three pumps off the same line as well as my chiller. with both my HLT element and my rims element on at 100% and 2 of my dc pumps im still under 27 amps on my built in amp meter... most elements actually draw and put out slightly less power than they are advertised as...
running your rims at 240v actually draws less amps than 120v for the same power output so...

Ive found there is absolutely no reason I need to have both my BK and RIMS powered at the same time as well as the same for my HLT and BK....

I turn my chiller off while brewing.
I mainly brew 11 gallons at a time.

augiedoggy said:

I have a 30a circuit. I use a 5500w element in my BK a 2000w rims element (at 240v) and a 4500w element in my HLT I also run my control panel and all three pumps off the same line as well as my chiller. with both my HLT element and my rims element on at 100% and 2 of my dc pumps im still under 27 amps on my built in amp meter... most elements actually draw and put out slightly less power than they are advertised as...
running your rims at 240v actually draws less amps than 120v for the same power output so...

Ive found there is absolutely no reason I need to have both my BK and RIMS powered at the same time as well as the same for my HLT and BK....

I turn my chiller off while brewing.
I mainly brew 11 gallons at a time.

Click to expand...

Really nice set up for sure!
Since I already have a 120V control panel w an Auber PID for my RIMS, I think I'm leaning towards a separate 240V panel build using the PJ diagram "5500 2 Element 30a EStop PID" and use an EZ boil and just run 2 panels off 2 circuits.

kcinpdx said:

Really nice set up for sure!
Since I already have a 120V control panel w an Auber PID for my RIMS, I think I'm leaning towards a separate 240V panel build using the PJ diagram "5500 2 Element 30a EStop PID" and use an EZ boil and just run 2 panels off 2 circuits.

Click to expand...

ahh I didnt read that part to see that you had an existing 120v setup. makes sense.