AG kickin' extract ASS!

So Im reading over the forum and drinking my first ever AG beer. A simple pale ale, and I have to say that THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between the taste of AG and extract.

I also have a nut brown (extract) and I dont know if this is due to all i've read about extract, but I think I can taste the twang.

Regardless, Im getting as much practice as I can with the AG system, and each batch makes things better and better.

Cheers

Lucas

Congrats! I agree. It might just be the smug satisfaction of knowing that you (I) took all the raw ingredients from grain to glass. Maybe its the freshness, or the control over the entire malt bill. Maybe it is the control over the fermentability of the wort. I'm not sure what it is but AG brewing definitely tastes so much better on my tongue.

I've done both ways and taste absolutely no difference. I think if your technique is sound an AG and a PM/steeping recipe can be equal to each other.

The placebo affect is the sole factor here; brew and enjoy the result, don't stress over the process.

I think my AG technique is slightly better than my PM/Extract technique.

Then again, I never did a full boil with extract, only partial boils, which may have something to do with the characteristic flavor I seemed to get on all my extract beers.

I oughta do an extract/specialty brew one of these days with my improved techniques and see how it fares.

bernerbrau said:

I think my AG technique is slightly better than my PM/Extract technique.

Then again, I never did a full boil with extract, only partial boils, which may have something to do with the characteristic flavor I seemed to get on all my extract beers.

I oughta do an extract/specialty brew one of these days with my improved techniques and see how it fares.

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I did an extract batch not long ago (just kicked the keg last night as a matter of fact) and it was on par with my current AG batches. I think the process, mainly ferment control and not waiting long enough, had to do with my extract tanginess. But it could have been my source. My other kits were dusty HBS ones, where my extract from this recent one came from BMW.

lucasszy said:

I also have a nut brown (extract) and I dont know if this is due to all i've read about extract, but I think I can taste the twang.

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Sounds psychosomatic to me (not that theres anything wrong with that). There's more styles available to AG brewers, but the companies that make LME and DME do a pretty good job at it. If you were having issues with extract, its either a process issue, or an ingredient freshness issue.

Im pretty sure that its psychosomatic as well!

Or its the fact that I now consider myself a REAL beermaker, not that theres anything wrong with extract brewing.

Im just glad that the wife is all in on this hobby, so I get excited about taking next steps...

Next step is the 40 gallon fermenter coming in.... what to make?

Cheers

Lucas

I know that since going AG my beer taste really really really great!!!! I was not able to do this with extract. Might just be me though.

IrregularPulse said:

I did an extract batch not long ago (just kicked the keg last night as a matter of fact) and it was on par with my current AG batches. I think the process, mainly ferment control and not waiting long enough, had to do with my extract tanginess. But it could have been my source. My other kits were dusty HBS ones, where my extract from this recent one came from BMW.

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Yes, I agree.... I think people who do AG who feel the need to diss extract don't realize that the reason their original extract batches tasted like crap to them was NOT that extract recipes/beers suck, it's that their process as brewers sucked.

And that if they went back and applied all the techniques they now know and employ in their ag batches (full boils, temp control, patience, rapid chilling, etc) to an extract recipe, using the best/freshest ingredients possible, they will find that their Extracts batches are not so bad after all.


Kinda reminds me of the saying by Mark Twain, "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned."

I wrote about this awhile ago in my Why Can't We All Just Get Along?

There are still certain recipes in my "stable" that taste much better as Extract w/grains than with AG...No matter how many times I have brewed them as AG. Even tweaking the recipe. The original recipe is still superior. Yooper's Dead Guy Clone for one, My simple Bel's amber clone for another.

I recently did an experiment where I took a stout recipe and brewed two batches, one all grain, one extract. The methods and ingredients being identical except for the all grain there was of course the mashing period and with the extract batch, the specialty grains were steeped. Otherwise everything was basically the same, full boil, etc.

There was a significant taste difference. The all grain batch tasted much better and fuller. One thing I realized after wards though is that specialty grain extract into the mash more so than they do into plain water. I have seen recipes with all grain and extract versions that will state to add less specialty grains for the all grain version. This may account for the different taste; the extract batch may have required more specialty grains.

It probably would have been a better experiment if I had done a single malt recipe.

+1 Revy. There's nothing wrong with extract vs AG. I prefer brewing AG for the control and options, also to be more hands on. But I occasionally brew extract if I don't have time, or am brewing at some where besides my home. My only beef with extract is that it has too much body for my preference of IPA style. Besides that though, it's delicious!

I was initially tempted to say that I think AG IS better than extract. But thinking it over....

It's pretty hard to do a side by side comparison, as we are talking different extractions and products. Plus steeping the grains vs. mashing them will have some difference. For example, I don't think the wort from liquid pale extract at my lhbs is anywhere near as light as the mashed two row malt I have. And there are some extracts that are a bit more carmelized than one might want in some recipes.

That said, I think perhaps the biggest factor, one which I can attest to, is that we often learn alot more about techniques at the same time as perfecting AG skills. I gotta say I do full boils now, ferment my ales at lower and more controlled temperatures, do FWH, dry hopping, am better at sterilizing, have switched to single stage ferment in glass for most beers, use yeast starters, and a host of other things.

The end result is better techniques = better beer. So if learning to do AG helped me be a better brewer.....

Rich

I've seen extract kits(yes kits) win categories and even a BOS or two. No one knew until the brewer told everyone.

z987k said:

I've seen extract kits(yes kits) win categories and even a BOS or two. No one knew until the brewer told everyone.

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Considering a lot of contests don't ask for recipes or any information like that, MANY MANY extract beers win awards in side by side competitions. None of the contests I have entered have ever had seperate categories for extract and all grain.

RichBenn said:

That said, I think perhaps the biggest factor, one which I can attest to, is that we often learn alot more about techniques at the same time as perfecting AG skills. I gotta say I do full boils now, ferment my ales at lower and more controlled temperatures, do FWH, dry hopping, am better at sterilizing, have switched to single stage ferment in glass for most beers, use yeast starters, and a host of other things.

The end result is better techniques = better beer. So if learning to do AG helped me be a better brewer.....

Rich

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That's what I'm getting at. By the time we get to AG we have added alot of tools to our arsenal which makes great beer no matter what modality you use.

Revvy said:

Yes, I agree.... I think people who do AG who feel the need to diss extract don't realize that the reason their original extract batches tasted like crap to them was NOT that extract recipes/beers suck, it's that their process as brewers sucked.

And that if they went back and applied all the techniques they now know and employ in their ag batches (full boils, temp control, patience, rapid chilling, etc) to an extract recipe, using the best/freshest ingredients possible, they will find that their Extracts batches are not so bad after all.

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Revvy I agree with you. The techniques I use now are no where near where I started at. I think you would agree with me there. Since I believe you were the first one on the site that responded to my first post and first beer. I was rushing my brew and it did not come out great, but drinkable. Since then my techniques have greatly inproved, along with my beer and understanding. Thanks for all of the advice and help to all of you that got me through a drinkable beer to a great beer that I am proud to share with anyone!

Revvy said:

Considering a lot of contests don't ask for recipes or any information like that, MANY MANY extract beers win awards in side by side competitions. None of the contests I have entered have ever had seperate categories for extract and all grain.

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I've never even heard of a extract vs ag comp. My point was, there are plenty of extract brewers out there than can make a damn fine beer that is better than a lot of AG beers and no one can tell it's extract.

I think the main difference is that there is a tendency to use poor or less quality ingredients with extract. You are buying a kit which has been assembled to maximize the profit potential for the LHBS (I know, it depends on the LHBS). However, if you built the recipe from scratch it would probably taste equivalent to AG brew.

smiths9312 said:

I think the main difference is that there is a tendency to use poor or less quality ingredients with extract. You are buying a kit which has been assembled to maximize the profit potential for the LHBS (I know, it depends on the LHBS). However, if you built the recipe from scratch it would probably taste equivalent to AG brew.

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I think Forrest at Austin Homebrew, and probably most LHB's includig Mail Order ones like Northern Brewer, would take a HUGE offense to this, most places pride themselves on providing the freshest extract possible.

Never tried using extracts. Might be an interesting experiment to try brewing the same beer with grain and extract. I just thought from the beginning of my brewing that I wanted to brew from scratch.

I think the difference in reputation of the two is due to the extra experience most people have by the time they're trying AG. They have most of the kinks ironed out of the rest of their procedures, etc. But an experience AG or extract brewer will both produce outstanding beers.

But then, like many of you here, all my brews are so good the World Standards Organization makes me label them as 10.9 troy ounces instead of 12 normal ounces.

i just cracked a PM brew that is unquestionably the best beer on earth........;


case closed........

But if you drink it, it's not the best beer on Earth. It's in your tummy!

This is why the precious title passes so quickly from one beer to another.

Revvy said:

I think Forrest at Austin Homebrew, and probably most LHB's includig Mail Order ones like Northern Brewer, would take a HUGE offense to this, most places pride themselves on providing the freshest extract possible.

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There are nice extract kits with liquid yeast and real hops, but there are tons of prehopped extract kits that while being alcoholic, don't taste very good.