Unmalted grain + Alpha amylase

Is it possible to make a beer just out of the unmalted grains and alpha-amylase enzyme,no malt at all...and what would be the taste like

I wouldn't think so. Malting gives us the starches we need to convert. No conversion, no sugars. No sugars, no fermentation. No fermentation, no beer.

You could, but you would have to treat the grain with the amylase first. I think it would be a lot like malting, but with slightly higher conversion. 150F is a little hot for most enzymes to function, so it wouldn't just work in the mash.

You'd need to add some beta-amylase too. Alpha-amylase breaks very large starch chains into smaller, but still big, starch chains. Yeast cannot metabolize these large chains. Beta-amylase converts these medium size chains into small units that the yeast can eat.

You can. But you should boil the crushed grain first. This breaks open the cell walls and relases the starch. Those cell walls are very strong in unmalted grain and one of the major goals of malting is to break them down. Then you cool it and add a-amylase to convert the starch.

But I expect you to run into problems with b-glucans, i.e. very viscous wort, since they have not been broken down sufficienctlty. And the wort is also likely to be deficient of amino acids for proper yeast health. Those are created by protoelytic enzymes during malting and to some extend during mashing.

In the end I think you can make "beer" but I doubt that it will be good beer.

Pjj2ba is correct about the b-amylase. I forgot about that.

Kai

What about sprouted barley?
I realize it's almost malting yourself if you let the grain sprout, then mash it.

I suspect this is how beer was first made intentionally (as opposed to the accidental beer that we got before someone figgered out how to do it on purpose). But I have no proof. And the jury seems to be out on how we ended up with beer in the first place, lo, those thousands of years ago.

I smell an experiment. And the origins of beer fascinate me. I still hold the belief that beer is responsible for agriculture.

But, I'd take whole barley and let it dry out, then introduce some moisture to the bottom layer. Then when it starts to sprout, grind it all into flour. Then mash it at low temps. Maybe in the low 100s. Don't bother trying to lauter or sparge. Just let the bulk settle out.
A wild yeast strain would make it even more authentic. Hrmm.

I was always under the impression that the germination/cracking of the husk is what created/released the starches. I assumed that the starch present in unmalted grain was negligible.

skadalajara said:

What about sprouted barley?
I realize it's almost malting yourself if you let the grain sprout, then mash it.

I suspect this is how beer was first made intentionally (as opposed to the accidental beer that we got before someone figgered out how to do it on purpose). But I have no proof. And the jury seems to be out on how we ended up with beer in the first place, lo, those thousands of years ago.

I smell an experiment. And the origins of beer fascinate me. I still hold the belief that beer is responsible for agriculture.

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I've thought about this, but I don't think it would make a nice beer. Now this is part factual and part "imagination". I've used sprouts of several grains, including barley, as subjects for doing scientific experiments (in a lab, the whole shebang). As it was available, it just had to be tasted. Well, the rootlets don't taste terribly nice, and the shoots are even worse - albeit at a stage longer than would be used for malting. Now that part is factual, but I can only imagine that beer made from grains still having all the rootlets on them would not taste very good. If you had a good way to remove the roots, then it might work

chrisknight said:

I was always under the impression that the germination/cracking of the husk is what created/released the starches. I assumed that the starch present in unmalted grain was negligible.

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This would seem to be true, except we make bread and pasta from the starches in un-germinated cereal grains.
Maybe it's a numbers thing. Grind enough grain to flour and you'll have enough starch?
I'm no biologist. But those starches after germination have to come from somewhere.

Beer may not have tasted all that good in the early days. It was probably only used for medicinal purposes at first.
This stuff fascinates me.
I will do an experiment.
I've always wanted to recreate the Egyptian ration beer the pyramid builders drank. Now that I'm making the leap to AG, I've no more excuse not to. :cheers:

Ideally you should have a combination of alpha and beta amylase, alpha amylase would take a long time to break down raw starches on its own. Sake is an example of what you get when you're using non-malt alpha amylase sources. With sake, koji, aspergillius orzae fungus, is introduced to cooked rice to break the starches by means of the Alpha amylase they secrete in cofermentation with yeast.

If you're going to be using a mixture of alpha and beta amylase it can be introduced to the mash prior to the starch rest and then the beer can be processed as normal. If you're going to just use alpha amylase you should probably pitch it in with the yeast and go for something like a sake.

you can just make it like chicha and mash in your mouth

DrJerryrigger said:

you can just make it like chicha and mash in your mouth

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Joe C. would be proud of this statement methinks... still gross though.