Organic way to keep bugs off Hops!

So there is this stuff called Diatomaceous Earth that is an organic method to keep insects off of your hops...

Remember if you use some chemical to kill the bugs that will be in your beer

Especially aphids other than Lady Bugs this is the best Aphid killer there is!

I already have 3 of my 4 new hops popping up!

That does not look effective at all.

This year I am through with the "organic" alternatives. Organic to me now means absolutely worthless. I have seen people who eat organic and have been for years die from cancer. I have seen people give up luxuries in their lives to eat or live more oganic and basically become depressed because they feel sick all the time. They go to a doctor and the doctor tells them they need to start eating meat whether organic or not. As soon as they start eating meat and not being "organic" they feel much better because their bodies are getting a much better nutrient balance.

I know, that was off topic.

Bottom line, there is no real proof that organic anything is better than chemical methods. Ever since chemical pesticides were developed humans started to live longer. Yeah I know, weird. Not really though. Chemicals aren't the problem. It the advanced medical care the allows us to live longer.

Quit worrying so much and brew. Spray them F-in bugs if they get bad. Just be smart and read the instructions. Chemicals degrade after an amount of time and hops after this time will be chemical free. Most often it is light that degrades a chemical. Meaning a certain period in the sunshine will make a plant equal to organic. Just don't dive in the the hippy BS because they heard it from a guy who heard it from a guys who heard it from a scientist.

Well rolling red "organic" is not the same as being a vegitarian or vegan. You can do everything organically and eat a ton of meat(not meaning 2 bash) just means there are no chemicals or roids in what you eat.

As far as diatomaceous earth gotta be careful not to breath it and I know some people who react severly from it contacting their skin. But i am all for natural remidies to problems

tchuklobrau said:

Well rolling red "organic" is not the same as being a vegitarian or vegan. You can do everything organically and eat a ton of meat(not meaning 2 bash) just means there are no chemicals or roids in what you eat.

As far as diatomaceous earth gotta be careful not to breath it and I know some people who react severly from it contacting their skin. But i am all for natural remidies to problems

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I understand what you are saying. I knew someone would say something.

Its all the same though. Some Eco-scientists says you must eat organic or grow food organic. But reality shows that since chemicals have been around humans have thrived even more than before and lived even longer at the same time.

The whole "organic" thing... along with vegetarian vegan... is a bunch of bullsmack if your trying to be "healthier".

If you want to be organic, vegan, or vegetarian for moral reasons then by all means leave the tasty and nutritious stuff for me. I will eat it while thanking you. But also know that if you choose to do so I will never scorn you for doing it. What you do with your life is your choice and no one should ever influence you to do otherwise.

I'll start my vines totally organic and hope for the best. I've seen a number of strange looking insects on them in the past and if all's we'll I leave it be. Problems I've seen are usually due to wilt and I can correct that if caught early. Otherwise, I go out there with both guns blazing and do what I need to do to save the my vines. Follow directions on the bottle and all's fine.

There is no better way to fix a house flea infestation than with Diatomaceous Earth, just sprinkle into carpet and rub it in... presto! no fleas

I believe the main reason for people going organic is not a health issue. It is true since the chemical age man has thrived. the organic issue is about not putting the chemicals into the ground that are killing nature in general(btw im not one to buy anything organic i cant justify the xtra cost of the food), i just totally understand where they are coming from

I use neem py for my insect/fungal issues and its all "natural". I spay every 7-10 days depending on the weather. Its easier to prevent insect/fungal infestations than it is to cure them. I say "natural" because i hate the organic buzz word.

rollinred said:

I understand what you are saying. I knew someone would say something.

Its all the same though. Some Eco-scientists says you must eat organic or grow food organic. But reality shows that since chemicals have been around humans have thrived even more than before and lived even longer at the same time.

The whole "organic" thing... along with vegetarian vegan... is a bunch of bullsmack if your trying to be "healthier".

If you want to be organic, vegan, or vegetarian for moral reasons then by all means leave the tasty and nutritious stuff for me. I will eat it while thanking you. But also know that if you choose to do so I will never scorn you for doing it. What you do with your life is your choice and no one should ever influence you to do otherwise.

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Ok so I'm not trying to start a fight here but as an organic farmer i should say somehing, dont get the wrong idea I sill eat all the food from stores and buy a ton of stuff thats not organic, so in no way pushing it or being a hippie, we went organic mainly cause of the better prices and we didnt spray much to begin with, so it made sense for us.

First of all it is no less nutritious than any other food, we still use fertilizer made of chicken crap that when an analysis is done comes out prettty close to what we always used before we went organic, we use mined gypsum instead of refined lime, there is always something "organic that can be used as a chemical replacement for nutrients, so the nutrients are all still there, and as far as taste, we raise our beef organic with our corn and hay, dont sell it as anything special and people love it over anything from the store and they dont know its organic, there really should be no taste difference.

So sorry for hijacking i hear this stuff all the time and just thought i would throw my $.02 in, I should probably relax and have a beer instead!

bradb521 said:

Ok so I'm not trying to start a fight here but as an organic farmer i should say somehing, dont get the wrong idea I sill eat all the food from stores and buy a ton of stuff thats not organic, so in no way pushing it or being a hippie, we went organic mainly cause of the better prices and we didnt spray much to begin with, so it made sense for us.

First of all it is no less nutritious than any other food, we still use fertilizer made of chicken crap that when an analysis is done comes out prettty close to what we always used before we went organic, we use mined gypsum instead of refined lime, there is always something "organic that can be used as a chemical replacement for nutrients, so the nutrients are all still there, and as far as taste, we raise our beef organic with our corn and hay, dont sell it as anything special and people love it over anything from the store and they dont know its organic, there really should be no taste difference.

So sorry for hijacking i hear this stuff all the time and just thought i would throw my $.02 in, I should probably relax and have a beer instead!

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I hear ya bradb,

Keep in mind I was already in a foul mood last night and had a few beers. So my demeanor wasn't very good.


My whole premise was that if you can grow organic and have no problems with bugs or growth, then by all means go for it. It is cheaper to grow your own organically.

If you have a bug problem or bad soil... by all means nuke those littler F'ers and use chemical fertilizer. The amount you are going to use will do nothing to harm you or the environment if done according instructions.


I hope that clears up where I was coming from.

Oh one last thing, raising cattle in mass food production versus family run operation is VERY different. You take pride in the few cattle you may raise for food. What they eat is hand selected to your standards. Mass production requires that farms use the cheapest food for their cattle. Almost all of them are healthy cattle but they certainly don't eat the best.

Just like any food product, you can almost always have a better tasting product if you do it yourself because you choose how you care for it and what you feed it, whether plant or animal.

Very good points, and i guess the cattle comparison wasn't a good one, you are right if we grew them non organic they would probably still be better than store bought, and i have no problem with nuking those little F'ers! Just stating my point of view, whatever you can do to get your ingredients to brew right!!!

Lady bugs can work wonders for aphid infections. You can order lady bugs online, they come in little containers with hundreds in there and you just set them down in your garden and let them go to work.
Also, Praying Mantids can help too. I've done both of these methods with my vegetable garden before and it can work. I've ordered them from amazon online in the past.

The issue with choosing an "organic" cure for these is that you don't want to risk getting insecticide in your beer. No one knows for sure if this is harmful or not, but I'd rather be safe than sorry personally.
In regards to eating organic foods I have found that many organically grown foods actually taste better. Additionally, I feel better knowing that there's no risk of ingesting artificial chemicals. No one really knows what these chemicals and hormones can do if ingested over a lifetime so I say why risk it? You're right, you can eat organically your whole life and still die of cancer, but that doesn't mean eating organic is worthless. You can also not smoke cigarettes your whole life and still die of lung cancer, but that doesn't mean that not smoking cigarettes is pointless.
Sorry, just had to throw in my 2 cents.

Smells like an agenda
protip: don't feed the trolls

Back to topic:
I am new to growing hops this year and I would like to know if anyone else has experienced any success with this. I have only heard of diatomaceous earth (DE) as being used in pool filters.

Previously I have used diazinion to combat aphids, but that was a chemical that was absorbed by the plant that killed anything that ate it. No good for hops. I was unaware aphids were an issue for hops.

timbudtwo said:

Previously I have used diazinion to combat aphids, but that was a chemical that was absorbed by the plant that killed anything that ate it. No good for hops. I was unaware aphids were an issue for hops.

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Aphids are terrible with hops. The absolutely love them.

Organic methods of keeping them off my plants would be worthless. My first year, the aphids were so bad I quite literally had a brown, dead, bine just a couple days after discovering the aphids. They took 3 days to completely cover the underside of the leaves. Luckly the plant shot a couple more bines and stayed alive long enough with pesticides to grow some roots and come back last year.

The second year was nearly as bad but I just kept spraying and they at least didn't kill the plants. But my cones were filled with aphids. Hate them F'ers.

I have an organic suggestion for dealing with pests that has always worked wonders for my entire garden; soapy water in a spray bottle. A mild dish detergent (preferable scent free) or castille soap work best IMO, and just spray directly on the plant. Good luck.

From my understanding, Diatomaceous earth is mostly useful for ground-bound critters like slugs & snails. Sprinkle a little around the base of your plants to keep them away - to them, it's a bunch of tiny razor blades.

For dealing with aphids, ladybugs have by far been the most successful method on my hops. I typically get an aphid infestation early each year, and within a week or so my own personal army of these guys starts showing up:


If you see those, don't kill them! The larvae can eat an amazing number of aphids, and they'll continue once they turn to ladybugs.

I saw the d-earth comment and had to post.

While working at BJ's Brewhouse for a summer I learned that the beer is filtered using d-earth... and when it's wet is a MASSIVE pain to clean up (heavy and sticky.)

As far as organic solution for plant pests: Neem! Most nurseries (especially the locally-owned hippie-ish looking ones) will carry spray bottles of neem oil. It works great on plants and can be used up to 24 hours before harvest. Also works well as a general ointment that can soothe burns, rashes and other ailments that usually require topical remedies.

If you have access to worm tea (not store bought stuff), you can dilute it (minimum 6:1) and spray directly on the leaves. Not only is it a great fertilizer, but the problematic insects like aphids and whiteflies can't stand the worm tea. At least for me, they've cleared up my white fly, mites, and aphid problem in the past.
Worm tea goes for relatively cheap on craigslist in my area - like $5/gallon for un-diluted.

I have been an organic gardener for years and not to start a fight with rollinred, but I don't think you are educated enough about organic practices to make a statement that it is absolutely worthless. The entire premise of organic is to make nature work for you. If you are spraying your yard, garden, etc with pesticides and herbicides, you will keep out all of the beneficial bugs, birds, etc that do your work for you. There are numerous scientific studies out there that prove the chemical route does nothing but create more cancers & problems and in turn require more chemicals. Mother nature has worked perfectly forever without our intervention. Every time we go thinking we can do things better ourselves with the chemicals we end up paying the price. If we just followed her example we would be much better off. I think everyone wants the cheapest\easiest route all of the time and more often than not it has negative consequences. I certainly do not want this stuff on my food and in my beer. After all we are growing our own hops to make our own beer for god's sake. It is a lot easier just to go to the store and buy the beer, but we take weeks to make our own. What is an extra hour or two of our time to grow things the right way?

With that being said, aphids are relatively easy to manage with a stiff spray of water. As soon as an aphid is knocked off of the plant it cannot survive. The olive oil and water in a spray bottle also works well. DE works well for most things on the ground as it is absorbed into the insects exoskeleton and causes them to dehydrate and die. It is washed away with rain though and will also kill beneficial bugs. Neem oil is also a great natural remedy, but be careful as it will effect the nervous system of the beneficial bugs as well.

Sorry for the soapbox post and I apologize if rollinred or anyone else feels like I am attacking them. That is certainly not my intention. I just think there is a natural cycle to everything and chemicals do nothing but interrupt this cycle.

Wow I might have kicked a hornets nest but I think some good info came out of this post?

My point was that I have used DE on plants in the past successfully and since this is my first year growing hops I figured it would work on them as well. I like the olive oil and water idea if it works...

My point is I don't want any nasty chemicals on my hops or in my beer. I try to go as organic as I can and by organic I mean like home grown/home made without toxic chemicals. The actual term organic has lost so much clout that anymore it is more of an attitude than anything. I grow as much of my own food as possible and believe that every American should grow some food even if it is just an apartment balcony garden.

Food prices are only going to keep going up and up.

smuth10 said:

I have been an organic gardener for years and not to start a fight with rollinred, but I don't think you are educated enough about organic practices to make a statement that it is absolutely worthless. The entire premise of organic is to make nature work for you. If you are spraying your yard, garden, etc with pesticides and herbicides, you will keep out all of the beneficial bugs, birds, etc that do your work for you. There are numerous scientific studies out there that prove the chemical route does nothing but create more cancers & problems and in turn require more chemicals. Mother nature has worked perfectly forever without our intervention. Every time we go thinking we can do things better ourselves with the chemicals we end up paying the price. If we just followed her example we would be much better off. I think everyone wants the cheapest\easiest route all of the time and more often than not it has negative consequences. I certainly do not want this stuff on my food and in my beer. After all we are growing our own hops to make our own beer for god's sake. It is a lot easier just to go to the store and buy the beer, but we take weeks to make our own. What is an extra hour or two of our time to grow things the right way?

With that being said, aphids are relatively easy to manage with a stiff spray of water. As soon as an aphid is knocked off of the plant it cannot survive. The olive oil and water in a spray bottle also works well. DE works well for most things on the ground as it is absorbed into the insects exoskeleton and causes them to dehydrate and die. It is washed away with rain though and will also kill beneficial bugs. Neem oil is also a great natural remedy, but be careful as it will effect the nervous system of the beneficial bugs as well.

Sorry for the soapbox post and I apologize if rollinred or anyone else feels like I am attacking them. That is certainly not my intention. I just think there is a natural cycle to everything and chemicals do nothing but interrupt this cycle.

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Hey smuth,

No worries, by all means call someone out when you think they are wrong or you might have a better idea.

I want to first point out that those initial two posts by me were in a lack of judgement state where I was pissed off about the day and also had a couple of beers. Not drunk by any means but certainly could have reserved my comments for a better time.


That said,

I do feel that organic is worthwhile only if done because you want to do it. The debate about chemicals goes round and round with all hard science indicating that chemicals are beneficial if used according to instruction. If you decide to lay on some pesticide a day before harvesting you quite simply should just drink the entire bottle of pesticide. Since pesticides came out humans have increasingly gained life expectancy. I do not in any way claim that pesticides are the reason for us gaining life expectancy but obviously they are not decreasing it.

In fact, one of my most passionate arguments is the fact that since DET was basically shut down worldwide due to causing possible (but not proven) health problems in children, it was soon found that FAR more children die from malaria now than did when DET was being used.



Now again. I should have never posted in the first place because of my mental state and the fact that I don't want to argue this because I actually give credit to people who do grow organically.

I find it incredibly time consuming and not necessary in my personal experience because the chemicals I will use degrade with time, sunlight, water, and heat. By the time I harvest I will not be consuming these chemicals. Adding in the fact of the boil where excess (if even present) will further degrade.

It simply is no mistake that food supply increased exponentially with pesticide use and that humans are not dying at increased rates since their use.

Again, if you grow organically and have the available time to do so then :rockin:.

I don't have the time to help "balance" nature. Because if I just let it go my hops would be completely dead in a month because the aphids are absolutely brutal for me. And yes, I have tried all natural remedies. Spraying every leave would take me hours and the soap sprays never hit every leave unless I tried to do them individually.


So rock on to all the "organic" growers that have the time. I never meant malice in what I said originally. I just find all evidence suggests pesticides are incredibly helpful and harmless. Your "science" says one thing while my "science" says another. There is not even scientific or medical consensus to tell us what is true. So reality is that we can not rely on science, only our own judgement.

I say grow the stuff and brew the stuff the way it makes you happiest... that said, don't be a moron and spray your hops the day you harvest.

I don't want to pimp KoedBrew's thread anymore than I already have, but I think too much misinformation and "scientific studies" have been published by the same companies who have a vested interested in selling their poison to all of us.

Anyway, I don't ever have problems with Aphids because the ladybugs take care of them for me. If I do happen to see one of my plants with some on there I just take the hose and spray them off. It takes two seconds and they die as soon as they are off the plant.

It took me a few years to get my yard back to a natural balance after we bought my place, but it has definitely been worth it. Having that natural balance is what it is all about. Make sure you plant some Marigolds, Yarrow, or Lavender by your hops and always have some sort of water source out for the bugs and birds. This will bring in the beneficial insects that will take care of the Aphids for you. You just have to work smarter and not harder.

KoedBrew - You are correct about organic and the food prices. That is why I grow my own food. It is the only way I know exactly what I am eating...

The word "organic" bothers me a lot. Mostly because of what certified organic means today; almost nothing (if your a big farm). If an organic farm is going to loose a crop to pests they can spray it, and still sell it as organic. The certification really works out for farms like Cal-Organic who have lawyers on staff.
Back to topic (a little). I don't like chemical fertilizers as they damage soil over long term use. I only have about 800sq feet of garden, so working in compost, and mulching with sea weed & shells is a reasonable option for me. I don't have a problem eating things grown with chem firtz, I use them for hydroponics when there is no soil to damage.

okay back to topic, for real this time
As for pest control. I don't mind spraying poison on my food. As I'm going to eat it; I'm more mindful about use and timing. Poison can be organic too. The organic type may be even more dangerous, it just fits the "organic" definition. Spraying poison will kill all the bugs, even the ones that are eating the problem bugs. Sometimes that's not a problem, but keep it in mind.
If your only pest concern is aphids you don't have much of a problem. If your hops are set up is such that you can raise and lower the bines you can just mist them with some soapy water (about 1ml to 1L). This is rather labor intensive, but it works quite well. Adding a little vegetable oil to the mix helps kill them too, but generally isn't necessary. Just reapply if the population jumps up to damaging levels (a few are not a problem worth addressing).

When I was a kid (the 60's), I remember going to the hardware store with my grandfather and he would buy a 1/2# bag of arsenic of lead.

He would put some in water, then spritz it on all the vegetables with a whisk broom (no handled mini-broom)

Well, he died at 76, but his wife (my grandmother) lived to 106, and my great grandmother lived to 104

Damn arsenic - just make sure to wash veggies before eating

With hops, they don't have a protective outer layer, so arsenic may not be the way to go - plus, I'm not sure hardware stores carry it anymore.

smuth10 said:

I don't want to pimp KoedBrew's thread anymore than I already have, but I think too much misinformation and "scientific studies" have been published by the same companies who have a vested interested in selling their poison to all of us.

Anyway, I don't ever have problems with Aphids because the ladybugs take care of them for me. If I do happen to see one of my plants with some on there I just take the hose and spray them off. It takes two seconds and they die as soon as they are off the plant.

It took me a few years to get my yard back to a natural balance after we bought my place, but it has definitely been worth it. Having that natural balance is what it is all about. Make sure you plant some Marigolds, Yarrow, or Lavender by your hops and always have some sort of water source out for the bugs and birds. This will bring in the beneficial insects that will take care of the Aphids for you. You just have to work smarter and not harder.

KoedBrew - You are correct about organic and the food prices. That is why I grow my own food. It is the only way I know exactly what I am eating...

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I don't know if we are so much against the OP's topic since it was discussing alternative products.

The whole organic food thing is becoming just like the "global warming" scare that had to be changed to "climate change" since now the scientists have been proven wrong again and again and no warming is present.

Its always about blaming humans for messing things up, those scientists will use anything they can, even make up stuff to make them money or to push an agenda.


"The only thing we know is that we don't know", as I like to put it. Evidence always goes back and forth regarding these kind of things.

I say just do it the way that works best for you. Organic doesn't work for me because the aphids are simply terrible. And no, spraying with water does not work. How am I suppose to get every leaf and every cone cleared of aphids from a spray of water... not going to happen. A quick spray with insecticide and the job is complete.

rollinred said:

I don't know if we are so much against the OP's topic since it was discussing alternative products.

The whole organic food thing is becoming just like the "global warming" scare that had to be changed to "climate change" since now the scientists have been proven wrong again and again and no warming is present.

Its always about blaming humans for messing things up, those scientists will use anything they can, even make up stuff to make them money or to push an agenda.


"The only thing we know is that we don't know", as I like to put it. Evidence always goes back and forth regarding these kind of things.

I say just do it the way that works best for you. Organic doesn't work for me because the aphids are simply terrible. And no, spraying with water does not work. How am I suppose to get every leaf and every cone cleared of aphids from a spray of water... not going to happen. A quick spray with insecticide and the job is complete.

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Aphids are very weak little things which get there O2 through their skin. As long as there numbers stay in check they don't do any notable harm to a plant. Rain will keep them in check, if it rains regularly. Insecticide will kill them, but will also kill the things that naturally eat them. Then the aphids will come back when the insecticide washes off and have fewer predictors, and their population will go crazy until you spray a second, third... What I'm getting at is that if you look at it as a natural system; there are a lot of things working for you if you choose to use them. I grow organically only because i'm a cheap skate.

Hold on... You believe scientists are making up global warming, and to make money some how. Who would be paying for that; lefty socialist patriot haters?

Happy Aphids


Unhappy Aphids


LOL

I like the ladybugs for aphid issues, I just can't find a good solution for Japanese beetles.

conpewter said:

I like the ladybugs for aphid issues, I just can't find a good solution for Japanese beetles.

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#1 DO NOT GET A JAPANESE BEETLE TRAP! That attracts more than it kills.

#2 Garlic- now I am not sure how helpful it would be with hops because of how high they grow, but I plant Garlic around other things in the garden to keep them and Mosquitoes away (in general).

#3 Neem oil works fairly well

#4 And last but not least DE or diatomaceous earth. Like I said before haven't used it on hops, and I know it does kill our ladybug friends and they say it can hurt if you breath it in, but if you look at the link I posted in the first post he talks about how it takes care of all bugs with exoskeletons.

I like all the discussion in the thread, I am glad people are getting ideas out for us all to read...

Hot pepper spray mixed with a little dish soap and water workd for me. Ever been sprayed in the face with mace. I have Dont ask!

I cut up a few habanaros and let em steep in some water a few days then add some dish soap (that will help everything stick to the plant). Mix well and put in a spray bottle. Just be sure to be up wind.

I cant beleive people are saying chemicals make us live longer. Wrong.Cancer and all these diseases we have now are because of the abuse of our food for the sake of profit,some people are clearly cluelss, but will see once they spend their retirement money fighting the mysterious cancers,give me a break they are man made the tainted air you breath,the food you buy gmo included chlorinated water. How fat is america now?Hmm. Yeah we are not living longer as long as monsanto and mcdonalds keep it up.

I was thinking the same thing, but sometimes you just have to let people figure it out for themselves. For years most of my family and friends thought I was nuts and now a lot of them are having health problems because of their diets and environments (IE household chemicals, pesticides, etc). Now they are coming to me for information on what they should do. I hate to see it get to that point, but most of the time it takes someone to get really sick before they make a change.

This is a long thread, just wanted to add my 2 cents even though I am not sure I have read all of the posts.

I keep a water hose hooked up in my back yard and when it really starts getting hot here is when i see the bugs start to get on my hops. I spray them down in the morning and the evening and noticed last year that it did a great job at getting the bugs off and to a great extent getting them to leave for good.

Just a thought, it has worked well for me.

I agree about the chemicals...I want them as far as possible from the stuff I eat.
The worst thing is that GMOs are starting to get into everything and the more I read about them the more they piss me off!

Thank God our Barley and hops aren't GMO yet!!

As for just spraying the hops off with a hose, I think that is just a quick temporary fix? Just my opinion, I spray my grape vines with the hose and they are covered again within an hour??

KoedBrew said:

I agree about the chemicals...I want them as far as possible from the stuff I eat.
The worst thing is that GMOs are starting to get into everything and the more I read about them the more they piss me off!

Thank God our Barley and hops aren't GMO yet!!

As for just spraying the hops off with a hose, I think that is just a quick temporary fix? Just my opinion, I spray my grape vines with the hose and they are covered again within an hour??

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I don't even know how you guys can possibly use a spray of water to rid your plants of aphids.

My plants are over 20 feet tall during late year and these bugs are hiding EVERYWHERE. Including getting in to the cones themselves where water and ladybugs can not get. And this is in a year where I monitored the hops almost daily.

Not a chance that a spray of water does anything for me. Except knock off a few on the lower leaves but hundreds still remain.

I truly do not understand why GMOs are bad for you. Can someone please explain?

As for pesticides, if they wash off, fine. If you can grow without them, good. I don't really care, but I'm never going to pay much more for organic stuff. First, my mom already grows a ton of organic produce. Second, I've yet to hear conclusive evidence that pesticides cause health problems when administered properly. Saying "all my relatives have health problems now" isn't enough. I'm willing to believe that chemicals in your food are bad, but please show me some evidence.

My hops just started, and depending on the bug problems, they might have to be nuked. Is nicotine an "organic" pesticide?

rexbanner said:

I truly do not understand why GMOs are bad for you. Can someone please explain?

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Well, I just spent the last 15 mins researching it. Damn, I wish I hadn't. While there hasn't been proof GMOs are harmful, there has also been no long-term research. This could be bad. They're in everything.

rexbanner said:

Second, I've yet to hear conclusive evidence that pesticides cause health problems when administered properly. Saying "all my relatives have health problems now" isn't enough. I'm willing to believe that chemicals in your food are bad, but please show me some evidence.

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I think it is fair to say that there have been myriad instances where synthetic chemical pesticides are proven to cause health problems. More specifically, environmental health problems (an example would be DDT). While it can be argued that DDT has not been proven to cause significant health problems to humans it was most certainly proven to be toxic to a wide variety of wildlife (fish, amphibians, many birds of prey, etc.). So while we (humans) may not have shown significant signs of health problems due to the use of DDT, the world around us certainly did. How long do you think we could continue to kill the things around us without bringing health problems onto ourselves (perhaps not directly) but indirectly through ignoring the wider environmental impact?

I don't mean to sound like a tree-hugging environmentalist. I am certainly not one. But that doesn't mean I don't care about the environment either. I am just saying that there is a reason why miners used to carry canaries around with them as early warning signals. Know what I mean?

@Rex before he looked it up and anyone who doesn't know. GMO genetically modified organisms are not some scientists going in to a plant with tiny micro tweezers and moving a gene from one plant to another. THEY USE A VIRUS!! That is correct they use a virus to infect the plant they are trying to change and cause a genetic mutation withing that plant so that it is resistant to something else.
If that is not bad enough, they make something like soy or alfalfa "Round-up Ready." You know what that means? They can spray this alfalfa with Round-up to kill all the weeds around it, then the round-up is absorbed into these alfalfa plants, the alfalfa is given to cattle. The cattle are then given hormones and antibiotics to counter the effects of the round-up alfalfa and then you and I eat the cow.
Or we just eat the corn/soy/canola that they have genetically modified to be treated this way.

Trust me this is not some left-wing issue, I am a Libertarian this issue has nothing to do with which way you lean.

As for the term "organic" it means almost nothing anymore. I know I posted it in the beginning, because that is what people know. Organic basically means carbon based...but regardless if people want to spray insecticides all on their hops, go for it, I just think people need to realize what they are consuming. Maybe?

ThickHead said:

I think it is fair to say that there have been myriad instances where synthetic chemical pesticides are proven to cause health problems. More specifically, environmental health problems (an example would be DDT). While it can be argued that DDT has not been proven to cause significant health problems to humans it was most certainly proven to be toxic to a wide variety of wildlife (fish, amphibians, many birds of prey, etc.). So while we (humans) may not have shown significant signs of health problems due to the use of DDT, the world around us certainly did. How long do you think we could continue to kill the things around us without bringing health problems onto ourselves (perhaps not directly) but indirectly through ignoring the wider environmental impact?

I don't mean to sound like a tree-hugging environmentalist. I am certainly not one. But that doesn't mean I don't care about the environment either. I am just saying that there is a reason why miners used to carry canaries around with them as early warning signals. Know what I mean?

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Thanks for clearing that up: I was wondering why "DET" was being referenced: DET is a psychedelic drug very similar to DMT in chemical composition and is very different from DDT, the once used pesticide.
DDT proved to be severely detrimental to Peregrine Falcon and Osprey populations, nearly wiping out both before finally being banned in 1972. Since being banned, both bird populations have made startling comebacks and were removed from the endangered species list but still remain "protected." Due to proven bioaccumulation in animals, it was only a matter of time before adverse effects were noticed in humans. So much for chemical pesticides...
Furthermore, the life span of human beings has improved significantly not because of the use of chemicals in farming, but because of the advance of medical science. Chemical fertilizers and pesticides do little, if any, to control illness and disease in humans: they are made in an attempt to improve plant vitality, not human immunity. Attempting to draw a correlation between chemical farming and human lifespan is a huge stretch with far more evidence pointing to other factors. Seek and ye shall find...