band-aid flavor?

Anyone know why I am finding a band-aid flavor in my beer? The aroma and flavor are touched with this slightly nasty characteristic. It is like plastic, chemical flavor. I can tell it is ruining the great flavor underneath it.

I have had this flavor in the past, but not recently. I dismissed it then because it went away. Now it's back.

Any help?

Thanks.

AN_TKE said:

Anyone know why I am finding a band-aid flavor in my beer? The aroma and flavor are touched with this slightly nasty characteristic. It is like plastic, chemical flavor. I can tell it is ruining the great flavor underneath it.

I have had this flavor in the past, but not recently. I dismissed it then because it went away. Now it's back.

Any help?

Thanks.

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Sounds like a brettanomyces infection.

Nottingham yeast perhaps?

It is a sierra celebration clone - american ale wyeast

Water? Do you have chlorine in the water or are you sanitizing with chlorine?

What temp did you pitch the yeast in the wort? Are you sure that all you tubing and everything that touched the wort was cleaned and sanitized? What kind if water did you use and how did you use it?
These are the first questions that I ask. Then, did you change any procedures recently or do you brew the same way evertime?

Sounds like chlorine (or chloramines) in the water supply. What kind of water do you use?

my water is from my well, bypassing the softner.

I pitch at like 70-degrees or so, after chilling, hydrometer.thermometer confirms.

it is always possible that it became contaminated on tubing or other, but I sensed an off odor (and flavor) when racking to secondary. Fermentation was normal, good for almost 4 days or so.

No change from normal operations, except I did move the carboys to the middle landing in my basement stair - it was July though and approx. 65 in the stairway. Possible culprit?

A little more info - this is the same brew i wrote about stuck fermentation, well, stuck fermentation in it's twin. I brew two 5 gallon batches at once and the other one petered out and wouldn't restart, even after I pitched again and warmed it a bit to try and get it going again. I actually had to dump it - the only one in my 40+ all grain experience. Sob.

I sanitize with B-Brite. No chlorine present.

any more thoughts?

sounds like brett:

Novice brewers generally learn how to avoid making beer that tastes like old, dirty socks. In the University of California–Davis brewing science program, students are taught to guard against contamination by Brettanomyces, or Brett for short, a wild yeast often found in the air that’s nearly impossible to get rid of once it invades your equipment, and that makes your beer taste goaty, sweaty, and a little like the way Band-Aids smell.

rest of article:
http://www.chow.com/food-news/54996/your-beer-smells-like-goat/

We are in the same boat. If you take a look at the multiple nottingham yeast threads I discuss my similar problems there.

Chlorine / Chloramines would be my first guess. However, after ready and searching band aid flavors, high temp fermentation or infection are the other reasons. You mention fermenting in July, are you sure it was only 65 deg.
Other wise, I would clean and sanitize everything which is never a bad ideal to take a day and clean anyway..... just a thought

Brett is often used for complexity in both wine and beer but when it infects early its impact is repulsive. If brewers or winemakers wish to use this tool it is often well after primary fermentation so its impact isnt as great.

Band-aids could also be from nasty phenolics - too high of a pitching/ferment temp would be a possible culprit.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll have to read more on this. Funny - I have a lambic going that i started after this brew...was hoping to encounter brett later than sooner.

I wonder if the temp cooled, became stunted, and then brett was able to take over?

Thanks again.

indigi said:

Band-aids could also be from nasty phenolics - too high of a pitching/ferment temp would be a possible culprit.

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In general phenolics are derived from yeast where types and quantities of phenolics are temperature dependent, like you mention, but these phenolic off flavour profile described fit the bill for brett closely.

"One of the yeasts that can withstand the toxicity of ethanol levels and which has become the latest concern for most winemakers as a result of phenolic off-flavours, is Brettanomyces/Dekkera (Licker et al., 1999; Loureiro and Malfeito-Ferreira, 2003). "

http://www.wynboer.co.za/recentarticles/200602bretta.php3

AN_TKE said:

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll have to read more on this. Funny - I have a lambic going that i started after this brew...was hoping to encounter brett later than sooner.

I wonder if the temp cooled, became stunted, and then brett was able to take over?

Thanks again.

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Had you inoculated with Brett? Could this be the source of contamination?

I experienced this at a microfest in Saint Louis this year. It was the first smoke beer I had ever tried and it tasted like bandaids. Glad to know that's not how smoke beer is supposed to taste.

AN_TKE said:

I sanitize with B-Brite. No chlorine present.

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B-Bright is a cleaner NOT a sanitizer. You need to use both. First you clean then you sanitize. B-Bright is similar to PBW or oxiclean and it MUST BE RINSED. If you use B-bright to clean you need to then use somthing like starsan or iodaphor to sanitize.

Does you water come from a garden hose? Could be chlorine from the hose.

trubled said:

Had you inoculated with Brett? Could this be the source of contamination?

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I haven't used Brett before, but I suppose that doesn't rule out that it was present in some other yeast package, right? I use a white bucket for primary fermentation, so perhaps something was stuck in there?

B-Bright is a cleaner NOT a sanitizer. You need to use both. First you clean then you sanitize. B-Bright is similar to PBW or oxiclean and it MUST BE RINSED. If you use B-bright to clean you need to then use somthing like starsan or iodaphor to sanitize.

Click to expand...

I have been wondering a bit about that. I'll have to get some sanatizer i suppose.

Does you water come from a garden hose? Could be chlorine from the hose.

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I do get my water from a garden hose, but I use it for every brew, so I doubt this is the problem.

Thanks everyone. I think the lesson is to sanitize, not just clean? I wonder if fermentation temp had anything to do with it too. Is it possible that the sach. tapered off as the beer cooled on my basement stairs and then the brett took over? I am puzzled because the thread from Hermit says to lower fermentation temps to avoid brett. If fermentation was allowed to continue without cooling, perhaps the brett wouldn;t have taken over with so much sugar left over? anyone?

If your not 100% on top of sanitation, all bets are off.

I haven't used Brett before, but I suppose that doesn't rule out that it was present in some other yeast package, right?

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It is unlikely you got brett, if indeed that is the source of the problem, from a yeast package. However this yeast does live around us and if a contaminated ferment takes off it could be a serious concern for the future of the brew area because of the likelihood of establishing a population.

I would agree with the "Brett" crowd. If you're using a plastic fermenter, check it for scratches....the little buggers love to hide in there. If it's really badly scratched, consider getting a new one. Otherwise....

Get some PBW and soak all of your equipment in it overnight. Completely fill up all fermenters, carboys, bottles, kegs, whatever with the solution. Next, completely sanitize with Star San or Iodophor. I would let your equipment sit in the sanitizing solution for a couple of hours, despite the normal "contact time" claims just to be sure.

At best, this should solve your Brett issue. At worst, you'll know you didn't have a Brett issue and will have super clean gear.

maida7 said:

B-Bright is a cleaner NOT a sanitizer. You need to use both. First you clean then you sanitize.

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bing bing bing bing bing bing bing


There's the answer, close the thread.


All this talk of brett is fine and dandy, it might even be valid. However, sanitation is job one. Get some Starsan.

If the problem persists after a proper application of sanitizer then, and only then, we can talk about other possible causes.

I had the same experience and by process of elimination I decided it was the yeast that was causing the problem. I made three batches of beer with the same yeast vial. All with big starters two were made from yeast frozen from that first starter. All three batches were poured out. In between I made other beers with the same equipment with no problems. Recently, I made a new batch with a new vial of the aforementioned yeast and it is fine. I either got Brett in the first starter or it was in the yeast vial when I bought it.

Wellshooter said:

I either got Brett in the first starter or it was in the yeast vial when I bought it.

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I suspect the starter was infected.

Since I haven't had consistent problems with contamination - one beer will be fine and then i had this batch, and the next seems to be fine - i wonder if it was a combination of things.

I guess I'm doing a pretty good job with the b-brite though, after a few years and only one or two "outbreaks". Not to say i'm not going to get some iodophor, it will be a part of my next order.

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions.

BTW - so far I am still drinking this beer. I find that as it warms up, the band-aid goes away a bit and it is tolerable at least. Although, bias will have us put up with a lot.

CHLORINE OR "RINSE AID" or BLEACH.

If brett tastes so bad, WHY WOULD ANYONE USE IT???

The one time I had bandaid, I sanitized with a little bleach......OH!!!! BUT IT WAS BRETT?

whatever.

cheezydemon3 said:

CHLORINE OR "RINSE AID" or BLEACH.

If brett tastes so bad, WHY WOULD ANYONE USE IT???

The one time I had bandaid, I sanitized with a little bleach......OH!!!! BUT IT WAS BRETT?

whatever.

Click to expand...

Brett when used to intentionally innoculate a beer would be done post alcohol fermentation when there is less "food" available to it. Which translates directly into how much brett based compounds are produced. Some is considered added complexity too much is repulsive.

FWIW I had problems batch after batch with just such a bad flavor and after eliminating pretty much everything else in the chain it came down to water. It could well be something in your water. I switched to bottled spring water and the band-aid/chemical flavor that I hadn't been able to get away from was gone.

-Andy

cheezydemon3 said:

CHLORINE OR "RINSE AID" or BLEACH.

If brett tastes so bad, WHY WOULD ANYONE USE IT???

The one time I had bandaid, I sanitized with a little bleach......OH!!!! BUT IT WAS BRETT?

whatever.

Click to expand...

The band-aid taste comes from phenolic compounds.

Phenolic compounds can come from a number of sources, including reactions with chlorine compounds, AND as a biproduct of bacterial infections (such as Bret).

Brett doesn't 'taste' like phenolics... but phenolic compounds are a fraction of the taste Brett will impart. As stated previously (and repeatedly)... the point in which Brett is introduced to the wort in recipes calling for it, as well as the recipe itself allows the unique taste to create a pleasing (to some) beer.

indigi said:

Band-aids could also be from nasty phenolics - too high of a pitching/ferment temp would be a possible culprit.

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Never had a Brett infection so I can't say but I will add a plus one to what indigi wrote.

I made what seemed like the perfect batch last summer. However I did not watch my ferm temp carefully enough (also July). I fermented the batch at somewhere between 75-80 degrees with Nottingham (repitched known good Notty). The phenolics created were incredible! Incredibly bad that is... I could barely choke down my hydro sample let alone a pint. It was my first attempt at BM's Cenntenial Blonde so I knew the recipe was solid and I had screwed it up. The second time I brewed it I couldn't believe it was the same beer just fermented 15-20 degrees cooler...

Never had band-aid flavours since as I keep my temps in check now. Your 65 sounds OK, but I suspect it may have run up without you noticing. Just a thought, not saying that is definitely what happened to you.

Some people have a sensitivity to certain tastes that others cannot detect or don't find abhorrent. What yeast did you use? I have determined that I can't stand anything made with WL-830 lager yeast. It's not temp control or aging or time on cake. I have experimented with all of that and I always get the same 'cough syrup taste'.

indigi said:

Band-aids could also be from nasty phenolics - too high of a pitching/ferment temp would be a possible culprit.

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I was going to say the exact same thing.

If it were brett you would have a pellicle and a whole slew of other flavors. More than likely it's phenols.

Homebrewtastic said:

I was going to say the exact same thing.

If it were brett you would have a pellicle and a whole slew of other flavors. More than likely it's phenols.

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I guess that was my over simplified point.

How prevalent is natural brett occurrance?

Cleanser or rinse aid or bleach are WAAAAAY more common and way more likely.

Not very likely. If you were fermenting in a bucket that hadn't been cleaned very well you could have an infection. But there would likely be other signs ontop of the bandaid flavor.