Yeast Starters
- Thread starter MacGruber
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
yes, pitching more yeast will reduce the lag time.
teach
Well-Known Member
I used liquid yeasts without starters for a while and didn't have any problems. But if you believe Mr. Malty, neither vials of liquid yeast nor smack packs have enough viable cells in them for a 5-gallon batch of normal strength.
For a 5.25-gallon batch of 1.048 wort, you'd need 177 billion cells, whereas a Wyeast Activator pack contains a "minimum of 100 billion cells". So you'd be underpitching.
That said, I made quite a few brews with just a single vial and they took off just fine.
You can check out Mr. Malty's Pitching Calculator if you want, but I'd not honestly worry about a starter for your first all-grain batch unless you've been doing them quite a bit already.
For a 5.25-gallon batch of 1.048 wort, you'd need 177 billion cells, whereas a Wyeast Activator pack contains a "minimum of 100 billion cells". So you'd be underpitching.
That said, I made quite a few brews with just a single vial and they took off just fine.
You can check out Mr. Malty's Pitching Calculator if you want, but I'd not honestly worry about a starter for your first all-grain batch unless you've been doing them quite a bit already.
yeah, let me clarify...
I generally don't make starters. Only a couple recipes that I brew use liquid yeasts, and I've had no issues just pitching the smack pack.
but... if you make a starter it will cut down lag time.
I generally don't make starters. Only a couple recipes that I brew use liquid yeasts, and I've had no issues just pitching the smack pack.
but... if you make a starter it will cut down lag time.
Well... a LAGER is one instance where I would absolutely recommend a starter. A big one.
Your beers will absolutely begin quicker with a starter. The higher the gravity, the more of a difference you will see in lag time. With a correctly sized starter and proper aeration you rarely see a lag time of more than 12 hours and it is often less. Without a starter you can get lag times in the 24-48 hour range or longer with just a vial. During that lag phase the wort is susceptable to bacteria which reproduce at a faster rate than the beer yeast.
According to Chris White from White Labs yeast, when you have a significant lag time, even if the yeast eventually win the reproductive battle with bacteria, if the bacteria gets enough time to reproduce in the wort in sufficient numbers before the yeast take over they can still leave trace residual off flavors in the batch of beer.
So you may be fine pitching only the vial, but you increase the risk of off flavors.
According to Chris White from White Labs yeast, when you have a significant lag time, even if the yeast eventually win the reproductive battle with bacteria, if the bacteria gets enough time to reproduce in the wort in sufficient numbers before the yeast take over they can still leave trace residual off flavors in the batch of beer.
So you may be fine pitching only the vial, but you increase the risk of off flavors.
It's really a good idea to make starters when using ANY liguid yeast for all beers above 1.020 OG...
The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.
And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days.
Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.
You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.
Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.
Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.
Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.
So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.
Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.
I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.
Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.
Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast. You may find the "bothering" to make a starter will make even the less than best kit beer come out tasting great.
The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.
And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days.
Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.
You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.
Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.
Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.
Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.
So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.
Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.
I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.
Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.
Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast. You may find the "bothering" to make a starter will make even the less than best kit beer come out tasting great.
I don't think you want to make a starter with just corn sugar. That might mess up the yeast because there are no nutrients in there.... just sugar.
No, you should not make a starter with simple sugars. It acclimates the yeast to eating simple sugars, which basically makes them lazy. You want the starter to be representative of the kind of complex sugars they will actually encounter in the fermentation. Try to get some DME, or make a mini mash with some grain for the starter.
So to the local HBS I go tomorrow. All I'll need is some DME right? I have the smack pack and I have a growler. Boil up some measured DME, chill, pitch, aerate, cover with tin foil, and swirl every time I walk by? Is that all there is I have to do to it?
You got it perfect. That is all there is to do. Shoot for a gravity in the 1.030 to 1.040 area. Use the Mr Malty calculator to determine the volume of starter to make based on your anticipated gravity of your beer you want to make. If you have some yeast nutrient it doesn't hurt to add about 1/8 tsp to the starter. It is not required though.
Also - you will need 12-24 hrs for your Starter to 'start'. So be sure to plan your brew day accordingly.
Read the Mr. Malty article - he has great step by step instructions.
Got Trub?
Well-Known Member
It really is that easy :rockin:
Here is Mr Malty's FAQ on making starters alluded to by pearlbeer: http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm
GT
