vinegar!!

hello all

just tried my first ever home brew cider, made 5 jars of which 2 are dark and smell,taste like vinegar and pretty undrinkable. the other 3 are "vinegarish" or like a flat wine and lighter in colour. can i save them?! my process was crushing loads of verieties of apples (and pears in some) and adding sugar then left for 6 months.
please help

Did you add any type of sulfites (Campden, k-meta etc)? If you just crushed the apples, then added sugar and yeast, there are loads of wild yeast and bacteria on them. Unless you have a controled way of doing it, or you know the wild yeast in your area produce a great product, fermenting this way is pretty unreliable. It sounds like you ended up with a bunch of acetobacter in the must. Acetobacter is the bacteria used to make vinegar, and is a pretty common and naturally occuring. If it is acetobacter, I doubt there is a way to savev it, apart from making apple cider vinegar.

rtwivey said:

hello all

just tried my first ever home brew cider, made 5 jars of which 2 are dark and smell,taste like vinegar and pretty undrinkable. the other 3 are "vinegarish" or like a flat wine and lighter in colour. can i save them?! my process was crushing loads of verieties of apples (and pears in some) and adding sugar then left for 6 months.
please help

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Well, if they've turned to vinegar, there is no saving them. That's a bacterial infection, and if it is indeed vinegar, there is no hope.

If it's not vinegar, but just "sour", you may be able to save it. How was your sanitation? Did you use any preservatives, or any airlocks on the batch? If you can give us a brief rundown on the process, we can give you some advice.

Do you have access to campden tablets, or powdered potassium metabisulfite?

Edcculus said:

Did you add any type of sulfites (Campden, k-meta etc)? If you just crushed the apples, then added sugar and yeast, there are loads of wild yeast and bacteria on them. Unless you have a controled way of doing it, or you know the wild yeast in your area produce a great product, fermenting this way is pretty unreliable. It sounds like you ended up with a bunch of acetobacter in the must. Acetobacter is the bacteria used to make vinegar, and is a pretty common and naturally occuring. If it is acetobacter, I doubt there is a way to savev it, apart from making apple cider vinegar.

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hello again, no we did not use any sulphates/sulfites. i watched 1 video on line and that stated cider will ferment using natural bacteria in the air. one thing on the lighter brew it seemed very strong (achohol wise) so had to take it easy. Gutted we cant salvage it but i will get it right next autumn

rtwivey said:

hello again, no we did not use any sulphates/sulfites. i watched 1 video on line and that stated cider will ferment using natural bacteria in the air. one thing on the lighter brew it seemed very strong (achohol wise) so had to take it easy. Gutted we cant salvage it but i will get it right next autumn

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Well, it's true that you can naturally ferment cider with yeast in the air. But the apples are also covered with bacteria, and bacteria will ruin the cider. One of the worst is a bacteria that makes vinegar out of alcohol- and it's generally carried by fruitflies.

If you stored it for 6 months you have to be sure that no air could get to it. Acetobacter needs air so is usually an indication that there was too much head space or a leaky seal.

But is it good vinegar?

I read some posts on the babblebelt forum suggesting that eggshells and other forms of calcium carbonate can be used to soak up acetic acid.

I have no idea if it works - could be worth an experiment with a bottle or two.

Otherwise keep it as apple cider vinegar or age it and see how it fares.

Making cider with wild yeasts is a tradition in parts of France particularly (and the UK) but it is very distinctive (kind of like blue cheese, a winery and some floury apples) and even if you get it right it may not be to everyone's tastes. They definitely require a long conditioning period though.

Personally I think they're lovely and am building up the courage to have a go sometime soon.

Sulphites will help but I hate them and won't put them anywhere near my ciders.