My Single-Tier Propane/Electric Hybrid Brew Rig

Thanks guys!

I found out that an old friend I went to high-school with works at an industrial controls shop.. that his family owns. He helped me punch the remaining holes in my panel.

This tool is bad-ass. It's a punch powered by a drill. Here it is with a 2" chassis punch. After this shot I turned that shaft with a drill and had a nice 2" diameter hole. We used the same punch to do 3 more holes... 2 for the 25A fuses, and 1 for the big six pin connector.



More holes in progress:



Here it is with all of the hardware mounted. I had to get new flanged power connectors... I was unable to track down plugs for the ones the box came with. The new ones are NEMA L6-30 twist-locks. Decided against a suicide plug ;-)



Now to start wiring!

Will have some more pictures of the insides & the schematics soon!

Prost!

I got my wind-screen burner mounts and offset brackets yesterday. Mounted everything today. Plan to paint them with high-temp paint after I maker sure burner position is final.

HLT Burner:



BK Burner offset brackets installed:



Un-drilled wind screen/burner mount:



Mounting holes drilled:



BK Burner mounted:



Will try to get some better pictures once gas is plumbed.

You will forever be respected as a DIY guru. You have my vote for "Best Brewstand on HBT."

Everything is looking amazing but I'm wondering why not stainless on the wind screens? I don't think paint is going to hold up there.

I am planning on stealing many ideas from this build. The March Pump Mounts are first in line for thievery. Thanks for posting this.

EarthBound said:

You will forever be respected as a DIY guru. You have my vote for "Best Brewstand on HBT."

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Thanks!.. though it may be a bit premature... still a lot of work to do until I figure out if some of my crazy ideas will work.

Bobby_M said:

Everything is looking amazing but I'm wondering why not stainless on the wind screens? I don't think paint is going to hold up there.

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Honestly, it was just a matter of available cash. I'm a bit beyond what I expected for budget. Fittings, valves, electrical components have added up more than I anticipated initially. I ended up getting the wind screens and brackets for free so I'm using them for now. I would love to upgrade them to stainless in the future, but buying small amounts of stainless is hard to do... and getting it welded can be costly. These should at least work for a while, and they'd be easy to swap out in the future.

I still want to have some inserts made for the HLT and BK tops out of 1.5" angled stainless... but material and welding is going to be about $150 ... so it may have to wait a month or so. I'm afraid the skirts when they're being direct fired will melt the powder coat material and damage it. I'm wondering if I can insulate it temporarily by setting some ceramic tiles between the kettle skirt and the frame.

seanoj said:

I am planning on stealing many ideas from this build. The March Pump Mounts are first in line for thievery. Thanks for posting this.

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Feel free to steal any ideas you like. Much of the theory still has to be proven ... and most of my ideas have come from someone else

I picked up copper tubing and needle valves for the HLT burner and pilot today at lunch. I should be able to fire it up tonight... and if it works as planned I'll get the tubing for doing the BK burner tomorrow.

:rockin:

I got the gas plumbed for the HLT and did some testing tonight.

Copper tubing bent, flared, and connected. Needle valves in place for pilot light and main burner:



Pilot light throttled down for low pressure, and glowing blue:



Burner actuated from Asco gas valve:



Some observations:

1. The Asco valves make a pretty good 'clunk' sound when energizing, and a slight audible hum while open.
2. You have to leave a decent length of straigt copper tubing if you want to flare it. If you bend to close to the end you can't slide the flare nut down and have enough room to flare the end.
3. Tightening the compression nut on the Honeywell pilot burners is a real pain because the mount and thermocouple are in the way.
4. The BG-14 Banjo burner doesn't need a whole lot of pressure to get really hot. I didn't go up to even 13 psi and it was rocking. Getting the balance with gas pressure and air control disc is tricky.
5. Burner takes about 3-4 seconds to fully light after opening the asco valve. I'll need long cycle times on the PID. I may use the definitive purpose contactor directly to the element to control it, avoiding high-amperage SSR operation so I don't have to use a fan in the box... and keep a long cycle time for both gas and electric.
6. Having a wind screen that protects the burner well also blocks access to see the pilot light and burner when the kettle is on it.

I'm going to try like hell to be ready to brew this weekend. Haven't brewed since January and I'm itching to go!

diatonic-

This thing is progressing very nicely!!

Where did you get the multi pin cable / panel mount connector you use?

Ed

Ohio-Ed said:

diatonic-

This thing is progressing very nicely!!

Where did you get the multi pin cable / panel mount connector you use?

Ed

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Thanks Ed!

I got them from a local industrial control shop that an old friend works at. "Bolen's Control House" in Boise, but Grainger stocks many of the same cables.

This one looks like mine in the specifications, but the part number is 1 number different.

The 6 pin cable is just like this one, except it has a male connector at one end, and no connector on the other end.

I'm sure someone else sells them online. 'BRAD HARRISON' is listed as the brand.

diatonic said:

[*]Tightening the compression nut on the Honeywell pilot burners is a real pain because the mount and thermocouple are in the way.

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What is the purpose of the TC?
I would usually expect it to control a pilot safety valve.

Sounds like things took longer than expected.
That's usually how it goes for me.

Excellent work so far! :rockin:

EarthBound said:

What is the purpose of the TC?
I would usually expect it to control a pilot safety valve.

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I bought the Honeywell pilots because they were inexpensive ($10 shipped) and had an integrated spark thingy (technical term). I think it has a thermocouple in it (maybe not) ... but thought it would be nice to have if I ever want to upgrade to the intermittent pilot setup. Plan for now is to manually light the pilot, or hit it with a BBQ style ignition module, and keep the pilot lit throughout the brew session. I'd love to be able to wire an indicator that could show if the pilot was lit on the panel. It's going to be kind of hard to see. I'm going to try to place a hole in the wind screen that will allow me to see the pilot, but hopefully not allow wind to blow it out. It actually seems like a pretty strong blue flame... we'll see

diatonic said:

I'm going to try like hell to be ready to brew this weekend. Haven't brewed since January and I'm itching to go!

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I really hope you do because you owe it to yourself.
Whatcha gonna brew?

Very Nice!! Looking forward to seeing the results from your first brew session.

EarthBound said:

I really hope you do because you owe it to yourself.
Whatcha gonna brew?

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No brew day this weekend . I need to get the heat shields done before I can fire the BK for long . I also still need to build/install the HERMS coil and IC coil.

I'm going to work on electrical this weekend running wires to pumps & gas valve through conduit. Hopefully next weekend she'll see a brew day.

While I'm working on the heat shield solution, I got the electrical done on the rig itself. 1/2" EMT conduit to pump 2, 1/2" waterproof flex conduit to Asco valve. Watertight connectors at every junction, and a weatherproof j-box.

Looks professional to me.
I'll do the j-box/conduit/connectors, too.

Good job! :rockin:

Thanks!

Having these made this week to address my heat issue. Going to modify them a bit after I get them to try to exhaust the heat more effectively. I'll post back when I have that done.

Nice work, stealing your wire containment ideas for the Asco valves.

Progress! I got my stainless heat-shield/keggle surfaces. Ended up having 3 of them made in case I ever decide to direct fire the MLT... and also to keep each 'station' uniform.

I'm going to try to get them mounted tomorrow. They turned out great! TIG welded top and bottom at each corner, and ground smooth.



We also cut some 6" long vents in the HLT and BK skirts. I *really* want a plasma cutter. That thing is too cool. Took a video with my phone which turned out kind of crappy due to holding it the wrong way... but it is cool to see a plasma cutter in action!

That is cool to see. What are the vents for?

ghart999 said:

That is cool to see. What are the vents for?

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The vents are an attempt to give super hot air a way to escape other than the small holes in the skirt and the corners of each 'square'. I'm trying to keep the stand from becoming super-freaking-hot like I see a lot of Brutus owners talk about.

Aside from keeping the powder coating from burning ... I don't want the stand to become a branding iron

Heat shields are a success! Last night I heated up the HLT with propane to 160F to see how things hold up. Flawless! I want to move the burner up about 1/2" to account for the extra height that the stainless heat shield added. Going to do the same thing with the MLT and BK tomorrow.

Excellent work so far.
Good idea with the vents.
I'll have to be doing those now, too.
It probably gives a good view to see if the pilot is lit so you won't have to drill a big hole in the wind shroud, huh?

Considering all the waterproof wiring conduit, how will you protect the pumps themselves?

EarthBound said:

Excellent work so far.
Good idea with the vents.
I'll have to be doing those now, too.
It probably gives a good view to see if the pilot is lit so you won't have to drill a big hole in the wind shroud, huh?

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Thanks! It really does help to be able to see the burner and pilot while the kettle is in place.

bendavanza said:

Considering all the waterproof wiring conduit, how will you protect the pumps themselves?

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I'm making some splash-guards for the pumps that I should get done this week.

Maiden brew day will be this Saturday, April 10. Going to brave a group brew with my club at the LHBS. I will either have great success, or massive failure with my peers .

Going to brew a 5 gallon batch of IPA. Want to get a feel for efficiency on the new system before doing a 10 gallon batch. Will be heating with propane.

I still need to:

• Build/install HERMS HEX coil
• Build/install BK mounted IC
• Make/install pump splash guards
• Redo HLT pilot burner mount
• Make 2 QD silicone hoses
• Make/install sparge arm
• Insulate MLT with Reflectix™

Wish me luck! I'll post some pics of the finished rig at the end of the week

sorry if this has been asked I couldnt find it. Where did you get the weld fitting for the heating element? I thought heating elements were not NPT? Please educate me. Thank and your rig is awe inspiring.

I think the heating elements are 1" NPS, but they will thread in to a 1" NPT female. The threads won't be water-tight, but the seal from the factory sealed mine up nicely. I've got some high-temp silicone o-rings that I got from McMaster that I'm going to try to use in place of the rubber seal. Haven't done a test fit yet. If they work, I have 24 spares

1" NPT half coupling

1" NPT Square-head plug

I got the plug to use when I heat the HLT with propane, but in my testing with gas on the HLT, the coupling/element doesn't get too hot. With the vents in the skirt it seems to keep temps there under control pretty well.

Thanks! Have you tried Teflon tape on the threads?

gunner65 said:

Thanks! Have you tried Teflon tape on the threads?

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I haven't tried Teflon tape, because it isn't leaking

Diatonic,
Nice heat shields! How does your frame feel now that you made them? Excellent job? Nice idea on the slots in your keg. Just watch your nutsack when you go looking into your keg while brewing!
Bartman

Snake10 said:

Diatonic,
Nice heat shields! How does your frame feel now that you made them? Excellent job? Nice idea on the slots in your keg. Just watch your nutsack when you go looking into your keg while brewing!
Bartman

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Thanks Bartman! The heat shields work brilliantly. Kudos to you for the idea! I implemented mine just a bit different. I'm using some 3/16" aluminum stops for spacers, which have a height of 5/16"... add the 1/16" thickness of the 2" angle and the overall height was only increased 3/8".

Really helps! No bad smells or discoloration after running the burners for an hour. I also hit the wind screen/burner mounts with some 2000F header paint and cured them in my oven.

I know a guy that does technical photography and he's agreed to take some thermographic pictures of my rig. Here's a link to a video he did of a manufacturing process, and a picture he took of a hot breaker:



I'm hoping he can make it to my brew day Saturday!

Where did you get your silicone hose and what size is it?

Diatonic,
Thanks for the good words. I'm pumped everything has worked out for you and your powdercoat. Maybe others will be able to follow our lead. Yours is the second one with the shields. I now consider you expert on heat management for brew rigs. Good luck on your brewday. I just did an IPA and is was easy! your gonna dig it. Good choice.
Bartman

pickles said:

Where did you get your silicone hose and what size is it?

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I'm using 1/2" ID silicone hose from Austin Homebrew Supply. My quick disconnects have 5/8" hose barbs and it allows a lot of flow. Bargain Fittings appears to sell the same hose now, but I haven't tried his.

Snake10 said:

Diatonic,
Thanks for the good words. I'm pumped everything has worked out for you and your powdercoat. Maybe others will be able to follow our lead. Yours is the second one with the shields. I now consider you expert on heat management for brew rigs. Good luck on your brewday. I just did an IPA and is was easy! your gonna dig it. Good choice.
Bartman

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Thanks Bartman! I love the powder coat, and the stainless surfaces for the kettles can now take the beating instead of the powder coating. I think it's the ideal finish for a brew stand if you can keep it isolated from the intense heat. I hope to get my kegs and rig looking as good as yours one of these days. I see some stainless polishing in my future when the essentials get finished up.

Your stand is just awesome my friend!

diatonic said:

Wish me luck! I'll post some pics of the finished rig at the end of the week

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Break a keg!

Brewed 2 batches this weekend. An IPA on Saturday, and an Amber on Sunday. I still need to get splash guards for the pumps, but I was careful not to drip on them.

A friend dropped by the maiden brew day and took some pics he posted on Flickr.

I took a couple pics on brew day #2 at home with my phone. Brewing area outside my shop still needs to be cleaned up

Was really impressed with the efficiency. Sparged too fast Saturday (got a late start to brew day) and got 80% efficiency. Sparged nice and slow Sunday and got 86% efficiency. Current sparge arrangement is just a piece of silicone hose draining on top of a dinner plate resting on the grain bed

Recirculating mash through HERMS coil:



Draining Amber to carboy:

diatonic said:

Got home and set the kegs on it to get a feel of how it will be to brew on.

The control box turned out fantastic. I'm going to start putting it together tomorrow.

I sent the design for the control panel labels to a local sign shop. I'm picking up the vinyl tomorrow to apply to the front. The vinyl part is on the right, I'm having it cut from yellow vinyl.

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I would like some more details about the vinyl.

1. What fonts did you use?
2. What size font? Or what dimensions are the text?
3. Did the sign shop dictate these?
4. What program did you use for design?
5. Did the sign shop need a specific format?
6. Cost?

I hope to do this soon and would like to ask good questions and not be an idiot when I go talk to them. I have a Fast Signs near me as well, so I think costs should be comparable.

Thanks a ton!

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

I would like some more details about the vinyl.

1. What fonts did you use?
2. What size font? Or what dimensions are the text?
3. Did the sign shop dictate these?
4. What program did you use for design?
5. Did the sign shop need a specific format?
6. Cost?

I hope to do this soon and would like to ask good questions and not be an idiot when I go talk to them. I have a Fast Signs near me as well, so I think costs should be comparable.

Thanks a ton!

Click to expand...

1. All of the text is done in Toronto Subway Bold.

2. The 'NUCLEONICS' at the top is 48 point, switch labels are 24 point, brewery logo text is small I just adjusted it to fit.

3. Nope! I just sent them the design and they made it (took them 2 tries to get it right though)

4. I exported my panel layout from AutoCAD in to CorelDRAW and did the design work in CorelDRAW. I've been using CorelDRAW since about 1990, and it's the easiest program for me to do vector design work in.

5. I didn't ask, I just sent a PDF along with my request for a quote online. PDF is pretty universally acceptable in the printing industry, but they probably would have taken the CorelDRAW .CDR file or an EPS file.

6. FastSigns charged me $30. Moments after pulling the trigger on that another guy I had requested a quote from offered to do it for $10, but he was going to take nearly a week to get it done.

I did some work in a sign shop as a kid so I was fairly familiar with what I wanted done.

The first attempt from FastSigns was to print everything in clear yellow on clear vinyl, then cut out the clear vinyl. It looked like crap. I told them the quote was to have yellow vinyl cut, and that's what I wanted. They were concerned about the thin lines/text in the brewery logo being problematic. We reached a compromise where they cut all of the main text from yellow vinyl, then did the brewery logo on clear vinyl printing yellow on top of a primer to make it stand out. They had 'Satisfaction Guaranteed', worked quick, and I liked that.

I had really wanted tamper-resistant vinyl, like they use on signage, but FastSigns didn't have it. They also didn't have reflective yellow.

I'd be happy to help you with the design part if you want to make something to give them. I've got a few friends in graphic design and have access to a lot of fonts. You can put some sample text in at http://www.adobe.com/type/ and browse the Adobe font collections. I'd likely have any of those. You just want to avoid really thin lines if you get it cut from vinyl.