Has anyone used Wyeast 3763 Roeselare?

I just got this from the HBS, I've got two lambics it will be going into. I also froze a couple batches in glycerine for later.

Check out these quotes from Wyeast:
"Aging for up to 18 months is required for full flavor profile and acidity to develop."
"Subsequent elevated temperature (80-85º F) will increase the rate of acid production by the lactic bacteria." - Good thing its getting warm out.

I'm looking forward to bumping this thread back up in a year and a half and letting you guys now how it turned out.

Bump.














Well, according to the above post's date, my first 'Lambics' AKA Flanders Red( I've come so far, a year ago anything sour was a Lambic to me ) will be a year old in ~10 days, so its time to bottle. I've got the two different batches, so I may blend them or bottle seperately, we'll see. Anyway, found this old thread and thought I'd update at the year mark, not 18 months yet(many bottles will make it to that point though). I haven't tasted them in many months, they may taste like satan's anus and have to be dumped, but I hope not.

Bucket or carboy?

I'm getting ready to do my Flanders Red sometime soon once I get my Brett L. Dubbel out of secondary.

I picked mine up this weekend while I was in Austin at AHB.. It wont be brewed for a month or so, im about to move, so I don't want to have to move full carboys. Im probably going to do a sour red and brown with it.

Any Idea what all is in this? I have searched and all I could find was, a few strains of brett, most likely cali ale, and maybe Lacto.

I'm glad you bumped this back up. I'm eager to hear how things turned out. I've got a pack of 3763 on the way and am planning a Flanders Red. I'll probably go with Jamil's recipe but I'm not sure whether to start with the Roeselare blend or partially ferment with something neutral and add the bug blend when I hit 60-70% attenuation. According to "Brewing Classic Styles" that should produce a slightly less sour beer.

I was inspired by Jolly Pumpkin's La Roja Flanders Red at the World Beer Festival this past weekend. I fell in love with the stuff.

Chad

-They are in glass carboys. Although, I am very tempted to try one in a bucket - seems like some people are having luck with this method. I need to 'take on for the team' and buy another bucket and throw a Flanders in there for science sake.
-The blend is 1056(or the like), Brett(s)(not sure which), Lacto and/or Pedio, and a Flor Sherry yeast. Something like that.
- Chad, both these are made by adding Roeselare to secondary. Based on my limited experience with other sour beers, one way to increase the sourness is to leave it in primary for a few months. Also higher temps help as well. And if you like La Roja hit yours with some bourbon soaked oak cubes, when I had the La Roja Reserve(unblended) at the brewery it was WAYYYY to bourbony, but after a few months turned out nice -reminded me of good homebrew.

Thanks for the update landhoney... looking forward to brewing (I should say starting to brew) a flanders red or brown sometime in the near future. I've only recently been turned onto the style and I'm really enjoying it...

im thinking im gonna be doing my Red in a Bucket and my Brown with a wood stopper in a glass carboy. Raj B Apte makes me belive that plastic buckets are just fine for Flanders and lambics.

Amazing that this did not get a single response last year and the topic on the greenboard is at 30 pages
http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=69895&hl=Roeselare

I just got all 3 of the VSS yeasts and will plan a few brews for the near future.

niquejim said:

Amazing that this did not get a single response last year and the topic on the greenboard is at 30 pages
http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=69895&hl=Roeselare

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I need to be more charasmatic or something I guess.

It's your avatar that scares everybody away. My Flander's in only 4 months ago so I still have a way to go. I might another pack of this to try to freeze and keep for a later time.

sause said:

It's your avatar that scares everybody away.

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How's this? Get it while its hot - its not staying for long.

What's that Monty Kitty

Go back to the other avatar PLEASE

Some day we'll have to get together on one side of the state or another.

Question, do you think if I emailed Wyeast that they might give up some info on what all is in it? Or is that something that they keep to them selfs.

niquejim said:

Some day we'll have to get together on one side of the state or another.

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That would be great, we're waiting for our counter offer to be accepted/rejected on our new brewery...I mean home....but as soon as we situated my brewery will be open to all HBT'ers.

Ryanh1801 said:

Question, do you think if I emailed Wyeast that they might give up some info on what all is in it? Or is that something that they keep to them selfs.

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I think they'd give you at least a better(better than mine) idea what is in there. At least whether its Lacto or Pedio, they only say 'lactic acid producing bacteria' so that could be either one.

There is some acetobacter in there too, right? That is why you have to be careful with the oxygen.

Beerrific said:

There is some acetobacter in there too, right? That is why you have to be careful with the oxygen.

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No, just in the air. Jamil address this, but not very well, in the podcast. Adding it would be too risky I think, making an aerated starter - then adding it to aerated wort. The potential is bad news.

landhoney said:

No, just in the air. Jamil address this, but not very well, in the podcast. Adding it would be too risky I think, making an aerated starter - then adding it to aerated wort. The potential is bad news.

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Really, that is interesting. I was leaning away from using a bucket because I was afraid the warm temps (in my house this summer) would give me vinegar. Hmm...

Beerrific said:

Really, that is interesting. I was leaning away from using a bucket because I was afraid the warm temps (in my house this summer) would give me vinegar. Hmm...

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Well I think there is that potential unfortunately if any method used allows air in, like plastic or the dowel method. Jamil said his bucket Flanders was done in 1/4 the time side-by-side with the same beer in glass, and that they can be more sour, in which case you could always blend with a non-sour brown/red ale in a carboy for a few weeks and then bottle. I think a bucket might get done quicker, but sacrifice some complexity. I realy need to do a sour in a bucket and see for myself.

Never heard any of Jamil's work, but I am pretty sure that the Flanders Red is commercially produced through extensive blending. In this respect it is like almost every other commercial alcoholic beverage sold in the world. Blending lends consistancy to everything from Bud light to Glenfiddich 18 yr. The best example of highly refined blending process is a true Balsemic vinegar and many sherries.

Jamil is the most winning homebrew competitor around so he's probably pretty good at what he does. He does admit that his Flanders method is a shortcut to avoid having to blend.

Man, I can't wait for December...

IT'S IN THE BOTTLE!:rockin:

For various reasons I decided tonight was the night, most likely a few days short of a year. The two batches were indeed very different, but looking back at my notes its easy to see why. A few months in I had to rack one, and added ~2 cups of sour cherry juice to get the pellicle to bounce back quickly, this was not Jamil's recipe but the other, more improvised, but similar beer. That one was on the thin, and more sour side. Jamil's recipe was less sweet and more malty with a bit more body. Both were somewhat lacking in oak so I decided to blend.

I blended/bottled a little over 5 gallons. 4 1/2 gallons of Jamil's recipe(all of it), a hair over 1/4 gallon of the more sour Flanders, and 1/4 gallon of my Bourbon Brett Cherry Quad(this provided some oakiness and depth, ala Jolly Pumkin's La Roja which is partially aged in bourbon barrels). All in all it tastes very good IMO and hopefully will taste much better with some more age, cold, and carbed. I carbed on the high side, my fiirend Mike reckons that these beers have less dissolved CO2 than 'normal' beers, so 'normal' priming rates can be low.

Anyway, I'm very excited. This was also my first time labeling. I labeled both because of the specialness of the beer and because I bottled half in large format swingtops that I didn't want to write on. I added some yeast to help wth the bottle carbing, from the Berliner Weiss yeast cake, just a bit. We'll see in a few weeks, and then really see next year+. Time to start on the next batch! The other ~4 gallons of Red will be blended in small quantities as I see fit, and the Bourbon Brett Cherry Quad will be bottled on its own in a little while....I think

If there is ever a beerswap involving this beer, please put me at the head of the list. I had a Jolly Pumpkin La Roja at the World Beer Festival a couple of weekends ago and fell in love. I talked my favorite purveyor into ordering it in. I bought a couple of 750mls today and will probably go back for the rest of the case, even though the bottled samples aren't as sour as what I tasted from the tap. In the meantime I got in a 125ml smack pack of Roeselare Blend and am eager to try my hand at my own version. A benchmark would be most helpful (and damn tasty). Your experiment sounds freaking wonderful.

Chad

Chad said:

I bought a couple of 750mls today and will probably go back for the rest of the case, even though the bottled samples aren't as sour as what I tasted from the tap. In the meantime I got in a 125ml smack pack of Roeselare Blend and am eager to try my hand at my own version. A benchmark would be most helpful (and damn tasty).

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Hang on to the bottles for a while. I won't say mine got much more sour, but tasting them at the brewery they were good but not great. I felt compelled to buy some though, and my dad was buying, so I bought a bunch. After trying them again after a few weeks/months they all were much better. It reminded me of homebrew, needs some time in the bottle. As an example, the Resereve La Roja was not even carbed when I tried it at the brewery.

Sweet. Land, I can't wait to move, so I can get my couple of batches going. How much oak did you use?

Ryanh1801 said:

Sweet. Land, I can't wait to move, so I can get my couple of batches going. How much oak did you use?

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Its hard to say, the two Flanders had the oak dowel in them and the Brett Quad did not, some there was some oak there. But they also had some french oak cubes, I'd say less than 1/2 an ounce in each, but they've been in the beer for at least 8 months or more.

So next time would you use 1 oz. or more? I have a few oz. of French cubes, just trying to get a general Idea on what to use. Also another question did you just use the Blend for all the fermentation or did you use cali ale, and then add the blend?

I wouldn't use more than an ounce I think, but its hard to say for sure. I used an different ale yeast for each and then pitched Roeselare.

I'm looking forward to bribing you in a year and a half into sending me some of these delicious concoctions.

Reviving old threads...

I kegged my Flanders Red today from the 2008 release of the Roselare Blend. Brewed on 7-11-2008.

It has come out really nice, but not enough acetic character. I left this batch in a glass carboy with an airlock for the entire ride. I was tasting some the other day with nealf and we added a little white vinegar and it really made it pop. I will probably bottle this sometime in January.

Beerrific said:

Reviving old threads...

I kegged my Flanders Red today from the 2008 release of the Roselare Blend. Brewed on 7-11-2008.

It has come out really nice, but not enough acetic character. I left this batch in a glass carboy with an airlock for the entire ride. I was tasting some the other day with nealf and we added a little white vinegar and it really made it pop. I will probably bottle this sometime in January.

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Now that some time has passed, how did this project work out?
1. Did you use Jamil's recipe? How did you adapt it, if so, e.,g., yeast and fermentation?

2. Did you add oak cubes, etc?

3. What would you do different next time?

Just discovered sours. Wow.

Thanks so much.

ipscman said:

Now that some time has passed, how did this project work out?
1. Did you use Jamil's recipe? How did you adapt it, if so, e.,g., yeast and fermentation?

2. Did you add oak cubes, etc?

3. What would you do different next time?

Just discovered sours. Wow.

Thanks so much.

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1. Yes. Pre-fermented with US-05.
2. Yes, in the carboy after the pre-fermentation, when I pitched the blend.
3. Would not preferment. Just pitch the blend. Make another batch and blend if it was too sour.