Ridiculous boil overs - Fermcap didn't help!

This has never happened before. But for some reason the IPA I'm brewing tonight just won't stop with the boilovers. I started with 6.5 gallons and now I'm at 4. I've been dumping fermcap in every time the foam rises and it doesn't dissipate! Is my fermcap just expired, or what? I haven't had a non-disaster brew day in six months! What the hell am I doing wrong?

Buy a 15 gallon kettle....that's what I did...practically can walk away from a 6.5 gallon hot break and return to find a nice rolling boil. Takes the anxiety out of brewday, plus it affords me the opportunity of switching to 11 gallon batches when I'm up for it.

My Fermcap expired 6 months ago. No problems. Brew every 2 to 3 weeks, always watch at the critical times, but never needed to interfere.

I can't help you, but would like to know what the cause is if you ever find out.

One thing a lot of people don't realize is that you're supposed to keep fermcap refrigerated

Get a spray bottle for $2 at the hardware store. When the boil starts to rise in all its foamy nastiness, just mist some water on it. Sure, you have to stand over the kettle when the boil starts, but we're talking 5-10 minutes max that you're in the danger zone. I frequently start a 7 gallon boil in an 8 gallon pot with no issues.

I've never used fermcap and never had boilovers....

Heat control is key...

rockfish42 said:

One thing a lot of people don't realize is that you're supposed to keep fermcap refrigerated

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fridged and I thought I read that you're supposed to shake it before you use it also. The few times I've used it during the boil it worked awesome. Haven't been as impressed with it as a blow-off stopper during fermentation, but maybe I didn't use enough.

a trick that works for me, is I just kill the flame when the foam starts to rise and stir for a few seconds till it falls again. Sometimes I have to do this twice, but after that, I've never had it boil over.

Are you getting the boil overs during the hop additions??

Have you tried adding the Fermcap before the boil begins? I add 2 drops per gallon well before the boil and haven't had a boil over.

GuldTuborg said:

we're talking 5-10 minutes max that you're in the danger zone.

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Yeah, that's normally my experience too but last night it was happening well into the boil.

Beernip said:

Are you getting the boil overs during the hop additions??

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Yes.

shecky said:

Have you tried adding the Fermcap before the boil begins? I add 2 drops per gallon well before the boil and haven't had a boil over.

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Before, during, after. Normally I would add a couple drops right when I start the burner for the boil and I could fill my 6.5 gallon kettle to the brim without spilling a drop. It has never been a problem for me before.

Actually, this has happened once before now that I think about it. I had a boil-over like this with 5 gallons of wort in a 30-gallon keggle, at a group brew day in early 2009 when the guy whose house it was let me borrow his gear after he was done brewing. Hop pellets in, explosion of foam. Damned if it didn't get hop sludge all over his whole expensive rig and nice clean garage despite a spray bottle, fermcap, hop sock and 25 gallons of head space.

My best guess was I had the propane burner on too high last night. I have never boiled at full heat before, but I had collected too much wort and my efficiency was a couple points low so I wanted to boil off a little extra to try and hit my target numbers. Plus I had had the perfect brew day up until that point. Hit all my temps, no stuck sparge, even managed to nail the decoction. I was so confident, and so used to everything going smoothly once I got the boil going, that I just walked away and cranked up the Wii, setting a timer for the hop additions.

I managed to clog the burner so badly with hop sludge that the electronic spark won't start it anymore. Had to use a match to relight the burner last night. So I may have to go buy a replacement before the next brew day.

The silver lining to all of this is that I grilled the perfect strip steaks while I had the IC going.

So the lessons here are 1. Don't boil at full heat, 2. Watch the freaking kettle, 3. Get a bigger pot, 4. Keep the fermcap refrigerated, 5. Use a hop sack.

I've learned the hard way that you need to add the Fermcap long before you've reached boil temps. It take a few minutes to establish itself and do it's thing.

And a response to the boiling pic from AZ IPA - that isn't a proper rolling boil with good evaporation rates IMHO.

If you've got a gas burner and you are attentive, you don't need to use any products and you don't need to have a boilover. I am right-handed, so my right hand is grasping a stirring spoon and my left is on the burner knob, until I get through the hot break. No problem. Reverse if you are left-handed.

I actually just did that 5 minutes ago. Doing a full boil on a tiny 3-gal batch, used a stock pot I normally wouldn't even dream of using as a brewpot if I were making any bigger of a batch... at 60, it was about an inch from the top. It's at a rolling boil now behind my back and I no longer feel a need to watch it, because I'm through the hot break.

MNDan said:

And a response to the boiling pic from AZ IPA - that isn't a proper rolling boil with good evaporation rates IMHO.

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"Proper" boils are hard to capture in a still shot....

And my picture was to point out that you can add hops and get your boil back without a boil-over if you manage your heat source properly.

My system boils off 1.1-1.3 gallons/hour, which is right where I want it....

If you've got a gas burner and you are attentive, you don't need to use any products and you don't need to have a boilover. I am right-handed, so my right hand is grasping a stirring spoon and my left is on the burner knob, until I get through the hot break. No problem. Reverse if you are left-handed.

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OK, but as I've already said, it's not a hot break boilover. I was getting these on the hop additions well into the boil -- as in, minute 75 of a 90 minute boil.

bernerbrau said:

I managed to clog the burner so badly with hop sludge that the electronic spark won't start it anymore. Had to use a match to relight the burner last night. So I may have to go buy a replacement before the next brew day.

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If this is a multi burner setup, or if you have another burner laying around, take the clogged one and set it on top of another one, holes facing holes, and cook it for a while on high heat. That is how we cleaned burners back in my kitchen days when food stuffs would clog them up, they come off clean as a whistle

Niemer said:

If this is a multi burner setup, or if you have another burner laying around, take the clogged one and set it on top of another one, holes facing holes, and cook it for a while on high heat. That is how we cleaned burners back in my kitchen days when food stuffs would clog them up, they come off clean as a whistle

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Only other burner I have is my gas grill. I suppose I could do that.

That should work, toss it in there and crank your grill up to 11 and let it cook for 30 min or so. Lid closed obviously.

bernerbrau said:

Before, during, after. Normally I would add a couple drops right when I start the burner for the boil and I could fill my 6.5 gallon kettle to the brim without spilling a drop. It has never been a problem for me before.

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Hey Brownie, hope all is well man.

Not sure if it's written on your bottle of fermcaps, but mine says to use two drops of fermcaps for every gallon of wort. If I'm starting with 7+ gallons of wort, I'm adding 14-16 drops of fermcaps as soon as I'm done collecting wort.

Even with that, I still come close to having a boilover. I attribute that to an aggressive flame. I have the burner on high as I'm getting up to a boil, then I have to dial it down.

So you might have not enough fermcaps and too much heat.

Take care man.

Just a couple of pointers.

To reduce the total volume of wort, I would suggest extending the boil, not trying to increase the amount of heat going into the liquid. Once you reach a good rolling boil, increasing the heat input is just wasting propane. If you have too much wort, extend the boil to 90 minutes or two hours.

The proper amount of the silicone based anti-foam is two drops per gallon added before the wort comes to a boil. That is, if you are starting with 7 gallons and boiling down to 5.5, you should add 14 drops when it is heating up.

When you add the hops during a boil, you are creating many more nucleation points where foam can form. In my experience, it is best if you let the hops come up to room temperature before adding to boiling wort. It is also a good thing not to throw the entire charge in at once. Add the hops a little at a time. wait until the initial reaction to the additions has subsided and them add some more. It may take a few minutes to add the entire charge but the small amount of extra time doing this is better spent than the large amount of time it takes to clean up after a boil over.

The last thing is never turn your back on a boiling kettle. You can never know when the wort will want to crawl out to play with you. Slight variations in humidity or having a front move in can change the ambient conditions enough to make your wort try to jump out of the kettle.

jsweet said:

If you've got a gas burner and you are attentive, you don't need to use any products and you don't need to have a boilover. I am right-handed, so my right hand is grasping a stirring spoon and my left is on the burner knob, until I get through the hot break. No problem. Reverse if you are left-handed.

I actually just did that 5 minutes ago. Doing a full boil on a tiny 3-gal batch, used a stock pot I normally wouldn't even dream of using as a brewpot if I were making any bigger of a batch... at 60, it was about an inch from the top. It's at a rolling boil now behind my back and I no longer feel a need to watch it, because I'm through the hot break.

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...but which hand do you hold your beer with?!??!

=)

I just started using the Equate brand infant gas drops from walmart. It definitely helps keep the foam down during the hotbreak and boil. I put 2 drops in per gallon of wort starting with the first runnings. If I know I'm going to start with 6 gallons, I put in 12 drops right away as I'm batch sparging/heating up and I haven't had any major foam-up. I was getting pretty good hot breaks in my 15 gallon pot without it, now I could easily get through the hot break at full tilt on the burner with 12 gallons in the pot. Spray bottle with water helps too.

-Steve

beerloin said:

...but which hand do you hold your beer with?!??!

=)

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I can't tell for sure without seeing it in person, but I would agree with Wayne1 about the hop additions. I try not to dump all my pellets in at once because you can get a mentos/diet coke reaction (nucleation sites). Try to add hops a little slower next time and see what happens. Maybe the flame is too high also.

Beernip said:

Are you getting the boil overs during the hop additions??

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bernerbrau said:

Yes.

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I had a problem with pellets that when they were hydrating and expanding it would cause me massive boil overs. If you pre-soak your hop additions in some extra wort they don't cause this nearly as much.

Use more fermcap

Beernip said:

I had a problem with pellets that when they were hydrating and expanding it would cause me massive boil overs. If you pre-soak your hop additions in some extra wort they don't cause this nearly as much.

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I normally use whole hops, but I couldn't get whole simcoe or sorachi ace anywhere. I also normally use hop sacks, but when I went to use them they were covered in mold so I had to toss the hops in loosely.

I will try pre-soaking the hop pellets in the future, and also monitoring my boils much more closely and not boiling so hot.

bovineblitz said:

Use more fermcap

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I can't emphasize enough how much fermcap I used. I was literally dumping it in from the bottle, not even using the dropper.

AZ_IPA said:

"Proper" boils are hard to capture in a still shot....

And my picture was to point out that you can add hops and get your boil back without a boil-over if you manage your heat source properly.

My system boils off 1.1-1.3 gallons/hour, which is right where I want it....

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Sounds good! I am impressed with how much wort you can boil with Fermcap, though. All I usually need is 1.5" of headspace in my keggle.