Starter for a Dopplebock

I have a dopplebock recipe I was planning on brewing late fall to give it plenty of time to lager for a traditional Lent release. I've never prepared a starter before as it hasn't really been necessary in the ales I've brewed. The only lager I've brewed used a starter, but it was a collaboration with a friend (he made the starter) that has since moved away.

So anyway, here's my question. I put the specs for my recipe into MrMalty. It's an OG of 1.082 at 5.5 gallons. I'll be building a stir plate and using that for the starter. MrMalty says I need three packs/vials if with a starter. The starter should be 2.39 liters it says. Now, do they mean pitch the 3 packs/vials into a 2.39 liter wort starter, or pitch those in addition to a starter that's been made? If they mean pitch the 3 packs into a 2.39 liter wort starter, isn't there a way a could grow one up from one pack/vial to save money? If so how would I grow up a suitable starter from 1 pack. MrMalty says I need about 615 billion cells.

You can step up a starter. One vial in 2L will turn into roughly 2 vials. Higher inoculation rates result in lower %increases. Dont have the chart handy but I believe 2 vials in 2 L will give you roughly 3 vials worth of yeast.

Correct my if I'm wrong but won't 1 smack pack in a 2L stir plate starter make 400B cells (essentially quadrupling the yeast)

KuntzBrewing said:

Correct my if I'm wrong but won't 1 smack pack in a 2L stir plate starter make 400B cells (essentially quadrupling the yeast)

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Closer to 300B.

You can use yeastcalc.com to figure out the right stepping.

Buying multiple packs of yeast always struck me as lavish and absurd. Just buy one pack and do 1- or 2-stage starters. You can always use a 4-L growler too, available for $5 at your LHBS. Especially if you use a stirplate, you definitely don't need to buy 2-3 yeast packs.

Use yeastcalc.com to figure out the stepping for that many cells.

Awesome. Thanks. Just so I know, how do I know when each step is done? Does it just take a day or 2 per step?

LoneWolfPR said:

Awesome. Thanks. Just so I know, how do I know when each step is done? Does it just take a day or 2 per step?

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Gravity reading would be ideal. Once u make a few you can tell by activity in the flask. Usually the gravity will be close to 1.000 or slightly higher depending on what extract u use. Less than 1.010. Usually takes about 24 to 30hrs on a stirplate.

LoneWolfPR said:

Awesome. Thanks. Just so I know, how do I know when each step is done? Does it just take a day or 2 per step?

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You can wait and sort of guess by the look of it, or use an airlock. Taking a sg reading seems impractical, but i guess you could.

If you're using a stir plate, the yeast will be finished replicating in 2 days at most.

Off topic I know, but there are great dry yeast choices for lagers. Rehydrate a couple of packages and you're done...no muss, no fuss.

osagedr said:

Off topic I know, but there are great dry yeast choices for lagers. Rehydrate a couple of packages and you're done...no muss, no fuss.

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Even for something big like a doppelbock with an OG of 1.082?

I'd dry to pitch 650 billion cells for a 1.082 doppelbock. Three packs of dry rehydrated should get you there. I like W-34/70.

osagedr said:

I'd dry to pitch 650 billion cells for a 1.082 doppelbock. Three packs of dry rehydrated should get you there. I like W-34/70.

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http://www.fermentis.com/fo/pdf/HB/EN/Saflager_W-3470_HB.pdf
This analysis says about 6 billion cells per gram. An 11.5 gram pack then only has about 69 billion cells totaling only 207 billion cells. Am I missing something?

LoneWolfPR said:

http://www.fermentis.com/fo/pdf/HB/EN/Saflager_W-3470_HB.pdf
This analysis says about 6 billion cells per gram. An 11.5 gram pack then only has about 69 billion cells totaling only 207 billion cells. Am I missing something?

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First off, I commend you for looking at the product sheet. Most people fail to do that.

The little ">" (greater than) sign before the 6 billion can be interpreted in this case to mean "at least" or "at a minimum." The numbers I have seen from various sources indicate 20 billion is a reasonable number to assume unless the yeast has been mishandled in some way. Good question though.

Ah, I had assumed the greater than would still be roughly close to the 6. Thanks for the input.