Guidance on how to "add" maltiness

Hi Folks,

Hoping ya'll can help a little here. I need to add maltiness to my beer without increasing the specific gravity... to balance out a recipe that has a lot of hop character/bitterness.

With this last batch I mashed at a bit higher temperature than normal to make the mash less fermentable (around 156 F) but it attenuated from 1.050 to 1.013 anyways using Wyeast Londan Ale. I also tried adding some gypsum and calcium chloride because my water is extremely soft but it ended up accentuating the already high hop bitterness. Some complain it leaves a 'rock' after taste!

Thanks and appreciated...

atarlecky said:

Hi Folks,

Hoping ya'll can help a little here. I need to add maltiness to my beer without increasing the specific gravity... to balance out a recipe that has a lot of hop character/bitterness.

With this last batch I mashed at a bit higher temperature than normal to make the mash less fermentable (around 156 F) but it attenuated from 1.050 to 1.013 anyways using Wyeast Londan Ale. I also tried adding some gypsum and calcium chloride because my water is extremely soft but it ended up accentuating the already high hop bitterness. Some complain it leaves a 'rock' after taste!

Thanks and appreciated...

Click to expand...

Upping the mash temps should (not always) give you more body and fullness, even more malty sweetness. But to get more malt flavor, there are several things you can do. First off is adjust your grain bill---add specialty grains for maltiness. Biscuit adds a biscuity maltiness. Honey malt adds a honeyed maltiness. Melanoidin, though, is the truest of them all. When you toast a piece of bread, you know what melanoidins are---they make it smell like toast! This is created by what's called the Maillard reaction, and the more melanoidins you can create, the more pronounced your malt character will be.

And just to be clear, there IS a difference between malty flavor and malty sweetness. You're looking for the former.

Anyway, the original way to create melanoidins is to do a decoction mash. I suggest doing a keyword search for decoction if you're interested. Short of that, though, you can add Melanoidin malt and also switch some of your base grain to Munich 8-12L.

Mash it at 156-158 and choose a yeast with low attenuation properties... like WLP002 English Ale Yeast.

It would help if you posted your full recipe. Then we'd be able to give you specific guidance rather than general advice.

...or back off on the hops if balance is what you are seeking.

GT

Beerthoven said:

It would help if you posted your full recipe. Then we'd be able to give you specific guidance rather than general advice.

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The recipe is JP and JZ's Biere de L'Inde (English India Pale Ale) but I added 0.5 pounds of Torrified Wheat. I also substituted some hops to what I had on hand. This recipe is supposed to be somewhat bitter but not as bitter as an American IPA.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.25 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1.74 %
12.25 lb Golden Promise 2-Row Pale (1.1 SRM) Grain 85.19 %
0.50 lb Biscuit (Dingemans) (19.3 SRM) Grain 3.48 %
0.50 lb Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.48 %
0.50 lb Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3.48 %
0.38 lb Caramel Malt - 120L 6-Row (Briess) (120.0 Grain 2.64 %
1.37 oz Galena [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 48.6 IBU
1.64 oz Williamette [3.80 %] (10 min) Hops 6.2 IBU
1.50 oz Williamette [3.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.25 tsp Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast Labs #1028) Yeast-Ale

Got Trub? said:

...or back off on the hops if balance is what you are seeking.

GT

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That's exactly what I was thinking. That, and stop hardening your water.

The first thing I would do is leave the water soft and see how that turns out. Then, if that's not enough, back off on the hop bitterness. If you want hop flavor or aroma, focus more on the later additions. Then, and only then, would I start introducing specialty malts. You might be surprised what maltiness is already in your beer.

EDIT: Looking at your recipe, there is plenty of malt character in there, but an easy fix could be to substitute Marris Otter for some of the Golden Promise. You could also leave out the wheat and see what that does for you (but I hate to suggest removing your own twist to the recipe).


TL

I think Got Trub? has your answer...back off on the bittering hop addition and lower the IBUs. That grain bill looks plenty malty to me, though I've never used Golden Promise, only Maris Otter.

I've heard/read that too many minerals in your water can mask some flavors. Try dropping the calcium chloride and gypsum unless you know for sure that your water needs them. But maybe someone who's paid more attention to water chemistry than me can give you more information on that.

It looks like a good brew. I have that book and have thought about brewing that recipe, just haven't gotten around to it yet. I guess you just need to mess around with it to get it to suit your tastes. I wouldn't do a decoction, though, that's just silly

Got Trub? said:

...or back off on the hops if balance is what you are seeking.

GT

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Blasphemy!

In order of effectiveness...but not necessarily ease:

1) Decoction.
2) Give your first 2 gallon runnings a good hard 15 minute boil t caramelize.
3) Reduce your mash (resting) time to 30-45 minutes.
4) Increase the mash temp to 158.

Aromatic malt will add a strong malt aroma, which might be what you need.

How long ago did you bottle it? I have found that green beers brewed with 1028 can sometimes taste spectacularly unpleasant, but they can improve dramatically as the greenness fades.

-a.

Hmmmmm. We should really add this advice to the wiki or something.

Very useful info! I will be experimenting with my next brew!

I think that aging beer is over looked by a lot of brewers. I don't know how many times I thought the recipe needed changing but found out later that all it needed was more time. Sometimes ales can take longer than one thinks. As for the treating of water you should try it without the water treatment.

ajf said:

How long ago did you bottle it? I have found that green beers brewed with 1028 can sometimes taste spectacularly unpleasant, but they can improve dramatically as the greenness fades.

-a.

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Interesting... it's only a week old in the keg.

WBC said:

I think that aging beer is over looked by a lot of brewers. I don't know how many times I thought the recipe needed changing but found out later that all it needed was more time. Sometimes ales can take longer than one thinks. As for the treating of water you should try it without the water treatment.

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Yea - I think for sure that I will drop the water additions and add some Melanoidin and aromatic grains in place of some of the Golden Promise.

If that doesn't work out I will play with the mash temps (most difficult of the changes) and maybe the mash time. I really want to nail a winner.

I'm also dropping the wheat - I lost some points on that because it wasn't in style.

Try the home brewing wiki page with the malt chart. This malt chart and the links from it are helpful in telling you which grains will provide which flavors (toasty, malty, sweet, etc). I find this page to be quite helpful when designing recipes or trying to find substitutions.

atarlecky said:

Interesting... it's only a week old in the keg.

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Oh, well, shoot. Give it a couple more weeks, at least. Most beers I make seem thinner than I want until they age for a few weeks or so.


TL

TexLaw said:

Oh, well, shoot. Give it a couple more weeks, at least. Most beers I make seem thinner than I want until they age for a few weeks or so.


TL

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Will do... but all this has been great information anyhow. Thanks for all your replies!