Explain something to me about March pumps please.

So right now, I don't do any pumping of anything, and i've been doing some reading to learn what's what. One thing that confuses me is that the march pumps can't be run dry. So when you start pumping, i get that, you gravity prime it. However, what about when you're done pumping? I'm especially thinking about using it to pump out your mash/sparge water. You can't see when the liquid is going to run out, because of the grain bed, so how do you know when to stop pumping? Right now, I stop when the liquid stops flowing. If I'm pumping, though, and I wait for the liquid to run out, won't that damage the pump 'cause I'm now running it dry?

Not speaking from experience, but as I understand it, if you don't run it for a prolonged peroid of time, you should be OK. If you stop the pump when it starts to run dry ( you should hear the sound/pitch of the pump change ) there will still be enough lubricating water/liquid left in there to stop any harm from comming to the pump.

Even after setting for a few months without running my pumps still have a bit of water in them. Just dont run them bone dry for any length of time.

"Dry" means BONE dry.

The pump uses the medium you are pumping for lubrication. As long as the impeller is "wet" it is lubed. They remain wet long after your brew session is over.

This is from experience, dont fear it.

Ok, cool. Thanks guys, that makes sense.

I would recommend the Little Giant pumps over the March any day though. Much nicer pump. The model 3-MD-HC are great for brewing.

Yet another reason to get a Little Giant 3-MD-HC. They're rated for up to 8 hours dry running. I've run mine dry plenty of times and it's still running strong after 15 years...


MrH

They prime much easier than that March and have 2x the flow. They are spectacular.

MrH said:

Yet another reason to get a Little Giant 3-MD-HC. They're rated for up to 8 hours dry running. I've run mine dry plenty of times and it's still running strong after 15 years...


MrH

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Just because March pumps are the only pumps available at your LHBS plus posted on many forums people believe this is the only pump that will work for home brewers. A bunch of sheep paying good money just to own a March pump. Open your eyes and expand the mind to alternative pump options, LG is a hands down winner in hp, flow as well a ball bearing vs a cheaper bushing motor. I see member MrH your running a LG pump for 15 years, i'm running one just past 3 years now at 24/7, I bet in total hours i'm running many more hours at 3 vs your 15 years brewing. This plus 100% trouble free, granted i've been inside it cleaning off algae once ot twice a year. At over 27,500 hours running time i'm quite happy with it no problems yet. The best deal was pulling off selling my two march pumps with one only used for less than 2 minutes, sold both for what I paid for them, lesson learned. Like electric element heating, back in 77 my journeyman friend was a homebrewer that had elements heating his brewery years before we became brewing friends. Nothing new just used all manual control switching and relays from job site dumpsters.

BrewBeemer said:

Just because March pumps are the only pumps available at your LHBS plus posted on many forums people believe this is the only pump that will work for home brewers.

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I think we know that the March 809 isn't the only pump that's suitable for brewing, but it is the least expensive suitable pump.

lustreking said:

I think we know that the March 809 isn't the only pump that's suitable for brewing, but it is the least expensive suitable pump.

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The tradeoff for saving a little money on a pump that disappointed me right off the bat the first time I plugged it in and saw the lack of flow and lift I needed. I felt like a sap or sucker for thinking I must have a March pump i'm just guilty. Live and learn. It was well worth it for me I dumped my new March pumps within 3 days of delivery. I never looked back as I have piece of mind for what, the cost of four 6 packs of store bought stouts in extra costs for pumps that work for my application? It's not a nornal simple keggle to keggle system needing a 1/25 or 1/12 HP March pump.

That's great that you found a pump that you like, but it's not really nice to insult everyone that doesn't have a pump just like yours.

lustreking said:

That's great that you found a pump that you like, but it's not really nice to insult everyone that doesn't have a pump just like yours.

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Back it up there bro, I mentioned it the aka March pump was so great from years of postings about it I got sucked into purchasing two myself that didn't work for my needs, if it works for you and your brewing rigs needs go for it and be happy. No insults those are your words besides there are many other postings and replies from members on this forum that are highly displeased with the lack of performance of their March pumps also. I'm not the first, last or only one. I call it a learning curve for not doing my own homework. Those March performance specs are at the pump for maximum flow numbers to make a product sell. I learned this out myself the hard way. The lucky thing I sold them without losing a penny. Cheers try again, you the new Pol Jr. now? LMAO.

BrewBeemer said:

A bunch of sheep paying good money just to own a March pump.

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I'm just sayin' it's not very nice to insult people.

I agree that the Little Giant pump is a better pump. However, for most people, the 809 works just fine at $100 less. It's not a better pump, but it is a better value.

lustreking said:

I'm just sayin' it's not very nice to insult people.

I agree that the Little Giant pump is a better pump. However, for most people, the 809 works just fine at $100 less. It's not a better pump, but it is a better value.

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This is not ment as an insult just that many members responded like sheep and purchased what was the only pump avaiable or offered to them, this happens to be a March pump to many hombrewers. I don't care it it costs only $40 it's not a "better value" if it does not perforum to the job it's required to do it's still a totally useless pump, can't put a "better value" on something that fails on the performance or output. Plan and simple. End of discussion!

Yah, some of your responses seem like nothing more than an excuse to jab at people, and put yourself on some pedestal. Your gallery looks like vapor, show us what you have been working on, inquiring minds want to know. Maybe we can learn something from photos and details of your brewery.

The March doesnt fail at what it is meant to do, it is just different than the LG. Both do the job, they are different, and it is cool to inform people of the differences, but insults are not really necessary.

BrewBeemer said:

it's still a totally useless pump

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Actually, let me be the first in this thread to simply call BS.

I have had the LG's running my reef tanks for dang near half my life now. Dang nice pumps they are I'll say, but to imply that the March sucks for brewing shows me you are using it wrong.

Lonnie Mac said:

Actually, let me be the first in this thread to simply call BS.

I have had the LG's running my reef tanks for dang near half my life now. Dang nice pumps they are I'll say, but to imply that the March sucks for brewing shows me you are using it wrong.

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BINGO... they are excellent pumps and pump much faster than necessary in most brewing applications. They prime pretty easy if you know what you are doing, and will probably never fail in a home brewery, ever.

I like the LG... but like Lonnie said... But Lonnie you were second to call BS

willynilly said:

Your gallery looks like vapor, show us what you have been working on

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Chuckling a bit to myself at a guy who joined HBT a couple weeks ago acting like a big man towards a member who's been around for four years...

ReeseAllen said:

Chuckling a bit to myself at a guy who joined HBT a couple weeks ago acting like a big man towards a member who's been around for four years...

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So there is seniority here on HBT?

At my job, if a guy who just got hired last month starts to criticize someone who's been around for a few years right off the bat, we all have a chuckle, if only because we like to see a new guy with some backbone

Here's my point... Unless you are trying to blast your wort through 50' of 5/8" garden hose or something (I don't know what the deal is really), the March works perfectly for brewing applications. Jebus, most, including me, can chill down an 11 gallon batch from boil to 65 in about 10-15 minutes. Any more flow rate than that is useless. It does it's job very well.

ReeseAllen said:

At my job, if a guy who just got hired last month starts to criticize someone who's been around for a few years right off the bat, we all have a chuckle, if only because we like to see a new guy with some backbone

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Ha!

I have a kid in the Marines older than you... I am that old man starring at you at work saying to himself, yea buster! One day you will be me!

I surmise that BrewBeemer's point is that the March shouldn't be held up as the supreme peak ultimate triumph of pump technology for homebrewers. March pumps work fine for typical brewing applications for ordinary folks who just need something to get the job done. But if you want to hold up a particular pump as the golden standard for extreme high quality, then there are other much better products available on the market...if you're willing to pay for that quality.

ReeseAllen said:

I surmise that BrewBeemer's point is that the March shouldn't be held up as the supreme peak ultimate triumph of pump technology for homebrewers. March pumps work fine for typical brewing applications for ordinary folks who just need something to get the job done. But if you want to hold up a particular pump as the golden standard for extreme high quality, then there are other much better products available on the market...if you're willing to pay for that quality.

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I would agree with this analogy, except it's like a beamer owner bitching at a VW beetle in heavy traffic when they are both going the exact same speed.

Lonnie Mac said:

I would agree with this analogy, except it's like a beamer owner bitching at a VW beetle in heavy traffic when they are both going the exact same speed.

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It's all German, anyway!

brewbeemer is just saying hes owned both and thinks the lg is better. ive also owned both and wouldnt trade one of my lgs for 2 marchs. it is a better pump in every way(i got mine on ebay for 110) im pretty sure thats all he was trying to say. im not saying the marchs dont work but lg wins in every category imo.

brewbeemer is just saying hes owned both and thinks the lg is better

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That and alot of condescending subtext.

brewbeemer, the March pump is a well known pump, the LG not so much. Why not post some useful links instead of admonishing people for not being as informed as you.

Everyone else, stick to facts and knock off the drama.

willynilly said:

Yah, some of your responses seem like nothing more than an excuse to jab at people, and put yourself on some pedestal. Your gallery looks like vapor, show us what you have been working on, inquiring minds want to know. Maybe we can learn something from photos and details of your brewery.

The March doesnt fail at what it is meant to do, it is just different than the LG. Both do the job, they are different, and it is cool to inform people of the differences, but insults are not really necessary.

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True you are the March pump is a good pump in my case with too much head pressure, hard pipe lengths with tight 90 degree fittings plus lifting over 5' vs the specs on it they failed me. Times two as I got a deal on buying two. I was lucky as my friend was in the market for pumps so it was a no money loss deal. My kegs were not normal like twice as tall this was the biggest problem, needed a more powerful pump.

I must add my last brewery build as well the next were kegs cut and welded for 25.5 gallons before the top radius curved inwards, add to this 10 inches off a pony keg bottom and it's skirt welded to the bottom. These were rather tall converted kegs. Much taller than the March pump could handle. This included the IC restriction problem as I had 60' of 1/2" copper not adding the silicone lines it all added up to very low flow from a March pump. I was pissed after reading their performance specs, didn't allow for all the tubing and hose frictional losses, every 90 degree fitting kills flow big time. I borrowed a LG from a friend and bingo instantly I wanted two of them. At this time I had a big offer for my complete rig with my new LG pumps thinking another better build is next. Job back injury then started with spinal surgeries. Builds on ice. I borrowed my friends LG pump it became an emergency for the Koi pond while i'm disabled hell its still running 24/7 like I posted above. I'm very impressed with the LG running this long, kind of a super test. If I could walk without this damn walker looking like someone in a rest home at age 98 I would gladly start my next build and post pictures. Lifes at total standstill after two surgeries and recoveries with more in my future. Check my hours on this forum, about 20 hours a day, walker or computer, pain pills or in bed. The real pisser I have the power tools in the shop and 9 motorcycles I was active. Put me into SSD.
Maybe i'm rude or opinionated I say what's on my mind no punches it's just me. You would too being a frustrated cripple at only 57 the past 5 years not showing much back surgery progress just pain 24/7. So i'm collecting slowly items for the next build. Done dribbling on myself take care all.

When I built my RIMS rig in '94, there wasn't a whole lot of info on pumps, nor was there much of an internet to search. There was just the HBD and catalogs. Back then it came down to the March and the LG. There was another that I can't think of now, but it didn't have spec's as good as the others. I spent a lot of time looking at data sheets for both and finally decided on the LG and I'm glad I did.

Quite a few people were choosing the March, partly because of cost, but also because it was rated for 212F, where the LG was rated to 200F. I know that was my biggest concern at the time, but I was able to get reliable advise to take those ratings with a grain of salt (at least for homebrewing application). I see this data sheet gospel all the time, in all sorts of areas (computers, A/V hifi, etc.) I think we all want the best we can get for the money we're willing to spend.

Lonnie has a point about the March being adequate, but I don't agree that the LG is overkill. I like having the flexibility to mount my pump just about anywhere on my rig I want without worrying about head pressure. My current (re)design pushes my recirc through a lot more fittings/tubing/pipe than my old setup, and from my experience with March pumps, I don't think one of those would be able to handle it. I applaud Lonnie for his ingeniously simple design that is easily serviced by lower powered pumps. But I've also seen discussions around flow problems that wouldn't be problems with a more capable pump.

The original question posed by the OP was about concern over running a magnetically coupled pump dry. That's a legitimate concern, and was one of the factors I considered when buying my LG. At the time, I remember specifically that the March had a big bold warning to not let it run dry, where the LG said it could run up to 8 hours dry. I don't know what the March pumps say now.


MrH

Lonnie Mac said:

I would agree with this analogy, except it's like a beamer owner bitching at a VW beetle in heavy traffic when they are both going the exact same speed.

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Hey Lonnie; be careful I own a 87 325is BMW, not stock plus a 54 VW also not stock, the VW has 56 Porsche Speedster in it, brakes tranny, engine and suspension. Sad to say my son last week got his first speeding ticket in my BMW, wrote up as 83 in a 65 when the radar showed 146, the CHP bike cop knew the last name and me with my BMW show bikes at BMW rallies. This scared the hell out of Nick so it's worth his butt in traffic school. It was in a safe area no traffic so this is cool. I have a past also.

olllllo said:

That and alot of condescending subtext.

brewbeemer, the March pump is a well known pump, the LG not so much. Why not post some useful links instead of admonishing people for not being as informed as you.

Everyone else, stick to facts and knock off the drama.

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ollllllo; I did have all my notes of the both the March and LG hooked up to my IC and brew system with notes on qts per minute flows in a file on my Dell that had a total HD failure. It was ticking for two weeks then locked up. They want $200-$300 to pull out 9 years of stored HD memory, if I had this I would gladly post them. No secrets just testing on what I found out on pumps. It was a fluke with the LG pump my friend loaned me, without it I was looking at a used house hot water recirculating pump as it was free.
In my files where different tubing, hose and pipe ID with the restriction per/ foot numbers as well what every 45 and 90 degree fitting will cost you in flow volume restrictions as well the SG of the fluid and viscosity. A great chart when adding up a brewery pumping system, add up the numbers pump head then match the pressures as well the flows required to select the correct type of pump. This is also locked up and a great help vs having many pumps handy to test with. I found these flow PVC, copper and stainless tubing on the net. Never going to be that lucky to have a bunch of pumps to test flows then select.

Lonnie Mac said:

Here's my point... Unless you are trying to blast your wort through 50' of 5/8" garden hose or something (I don't know what the deal is really), the March works perfectly for brewing applications. Jebus, most, including me, can chill down an 11 gallon batch from boil to 65 in about 10-15 minutes. Any more flow rate than that is useless. It does it's job very well.

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There you go Lonnie your talking 11 gallons, i'm talking 25 1/2 gallons in each keggle with 18 to 18 1/2 gallons to cool down with 60' of 1/2" copper IC tubing.
The March may "works perfectly" for your batch volumes not mine.
When I sold my bewery the buyer insisted I add the LG pumps in the deal after he saw the flows on a quick cycle of the brewery. I wasn't planning on selling him the pumps he paid for the LG pumps at full price which I planned to keep for the next build.

By the way Lonnie; the "totally useless pump" you quoted from my reply why did you leave out the reason instead of just chopping up my reply?

I stated, "I don't care if it costs only $40 it's not a "better value" if it does not preform to the job it's required to do it's a totally useless pump, can't put a "better value" on something that fails on the performance or output.

If I said a March pump is a totally useless pump that would be a stupid statement. You an attorney who thrives on twisting words around or chopping ones statements up? Sounds like you took the same class Pol took.
Sorry bro I don't play that crap!.

Geeze, every thread is a pissing contest these days. HBT must be having its period.

All of the drama could have been avoided by the exclusion of one word; sheep. Calling people sheep is the same as calling them willfully ignorant. There are a LOT of march pump owners lumped in there even if they knew of alternatives and made a conscious choice.

Whatever good advice someone may have to offer, all kinds of peppered in arrogance and insults take away credibility.

Bobby_M said:

All of the drama could have been avoided by the exclusion of one word; sheep. Calling people sheep is the same as calling them willfully ignorant. There are a LOT of march pump owners lumped in there even if they knew of alternatives and made a conscious choice.

Whatever good advice someone may have to offer, all kinds of peppered in arrogance and insults take away credibility.

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I couldn't agree more!

Bobby_M said:

All of the drama could have been avoided by the exclusion of one word; sheep. Calling people sheep is the same as calling them willfully ignorant. There are a LOT of march pump owners lumped in there even if they knew of alternatives and made a conscious choice.

Whatever good advice someone may have to offer, all kinds of peppered in arrogance and insults take away credibility.

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Bobby_M; you said it best; it's totally my fault call it a bad choice of words like a person can think but not speak the same words or else face the conseqences which I did with no intentions of belittling any of my fellow brewing members. I regret this statement and must apologize for the bad choice of wording. It would of been better if I mentioned instead pump brand X vs the most commomly used pump buy of the brewing members, this being the March pump instead. My deepest apolgizes to those that took this as offensive. I'm a person that just speaks what's on my mind no hinting around or playing games it's just me, I came off this time as wrong no thinking as I typed, yes I have strong opinions this is just me. Wow, this totally hurts me as being a cripple (not to offend now any other disableled people) this forum is a window or outlook on life for me being confined to inside a house 24/7 the past 3 years this is the last thing I would of wanted is to cause discomfort and disorder among the many members i''ve met and become friends with on this forum. All I can say or think of at the moment after a bad night thinking about these replies towards me. Yes my bedtime began at 5 AM life in pain 24/7 sucks I went too far call it striking out with the wrong words I wanted to express or get out with my pump experiences. Thanks for reading this reply, BrewBeemer.

BrewBeemer said:

Bobby_M; you said it best; it's totally my fault call it a bad choice of words like a person can think but not speak the same words or else face the conseqences which I did with no intentions of belittling any of my fellow brewing members. I regret this statement and must apologize for the bad choice of wording. It would of been better if I mentioned instead pump brand X vs the most commomly used pump buy of the brewing members, this being the March pump instead. My deepest apolgizes to those that took this as offensive. I'm a person that just speaks what's on my mind no hinting around or playing games it's just me, I came off this time as wrong no thinking as I typed, yes I have strong opinions this is just me. Wow, this totally hurts me as being a cripple (not to offend now any other disableled people) this forum is a window or outlook on life for me being confined to inside a house 24/7 the past 3 years this is the last thing I would of wanted is to cause discomfort and disorder among the many members i''ve met and become friends with on this forum. All I can say or think of at the moment after a bad night thinking about these replies towards me. Yes my bedtime began at 5 AM life in pain 24/7 sucks I went too far call it striking out with the wrong words I wanted to express or get out with my pump experiences. Thanks for reading this reply, BrewBeemer.

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Don't sweat it my friend!

I am however pissed that you actually own a 87 325is BMW and a 54 VW! Gawd what I would give for these! Tell ya what, Brutus Ten, and my FJ...

Now, back in the 80's, I had a reef pump that I thought was the best thing next to Chef Boyardee pizzas... I can't remember the name of it but it was something like lifeline?? Not sure but it was GREAT... Checking into todays reef market, there are some nice reef tank pumps that will suck a softball through copper... I am sure there are some great pumps out there for any application one may need. Actually, browsing though a good salt water reef store one can find very many things that can be applied to brewing.

Now on to the tidal wave!

I run my march pump dry all the time. Not totally dry, but either the mashtun runs dry, or I turn off a valve and don't get around to switching the pump off for a few minutes. It's still running great. Don't sweat it. I guess if there are a few drops of fluid in there swishing around, the pump is quite happy.

Thanks passedpawn for getting back to the OPs questions...as a new March pump owner I was also curious...I wouldn't mind hearing more experiences from fellow March owners and how long they feel comfortable running their pumps dry.

Also, you guys say there will be liquid in the head long after it seems dry. What about storing these pumps outside in the winter? My garage easily gets below freezing and my rig is stored in the garage. Now I'm worried about the liquid in the pump freezing and busting the head.

Anything I should be concerned about?