CO2 Volumes and Foam/Head

So I'm just starting to drink my very first batch. I lurked on this site a lot to get my facts down before I brewed. I did an oatmeal stout.

The beer is pretty good. Better than I would have thought. There's really only one thing that bothers me. It has about zero foam/head. It's carbonated, but there's just no foam at all. I let it sit in bottles for 4 weeks at room temperature and it's been in the fridge for a few days at this point, so I don't think I've done anything wrong as far as waiting.

I used 2.7 ounces of turbinado sugar and 3 ounces of malto dextrine when "priming." Austin Homebrew Supply says malto is 12% fermentable, so I'm guessing I primed with roughly 3 ounces of cane equivalent, which should have given me between 1.9 and 2.0 volumes.

The level of carbonation itself isn't bad. There's a steady stream of bubbles rising up, and it has that familiar CO2 bite, especially if you're looking for it. Not as strong as most of the beers I'm used to, and not really close to soda, but still with this amount of carbonation I'd expect even a little bit of foam, but I get practically nothing. Just a thin layer a few mm thick that disappears almost instantly.

Any ideas as to why this might be?

head retention is largely a product of proteins remaining in the beer after fermentation. Lots of folks add things like carapils/munich or other dextrine malts which are basically protein-rich malts and unfermentable sugars that aid in head retention. Could be other things but look at your recipe - do you have any protein-contributing malts? Also, could be residual soaps on your glassware breaking the head and preventing it from forming. Try a different method of cleaning your glasses first.

mandoman said:

head retention is largely a product of proteins remaining in the beer after fermentation. Lots of folks add things like carapils/munich or other dextrine malts which are basically protein-rich malts and unfermentable sugars that aid in head retention. Could be other things but look at your recipe - do you have any protein-contributing malts? Also, could be residual soaps on your glassware breaking the head and preventing it from forming. Try a different method of cleaning your glasses first.

Click to expand...

I doubt the glasses are causing problems, because other beers form a head/foam with no problem.

The recipe is one I found in a member's "signature" before I knew about the recipe section. Like I said it's pretty good, but I can't figure out what the deal is with the no-foam.

.5 roasted
.5 black
.5 chocolate
1 lb Flaked Oats

7lb Amber LME
1 lb Amber DME

When I primed, I added 3 oz malto dextrine and 4 oz lactose to the boiling sugar, because I had bought ingredients for future brews and had that left over.

I guess it could just be low carbonation combined with low protein.

Have you tried pouring differently? Pouring from a distance a bit over the glass should give you a better head.

I've tried what I consider a normal pour, and a vigorous pour. It's gotta be something with the beer itself.

With that recipe, you should have a long lasting head, and it should be fairly "thick" feeling in mouthfeel. Maybe it hasn't been in the bottle long enough? Maybe four weeks isn't long enough yet. I just don't have an answer!

I'd try rinsing a glass with hot water (no soap!) and making sure none of the beer glasses are put into the dishwasher, and try again.

YooperBrew said:

I'd try rinsing a glass with hot water (no soap!) and making sure none of the beer glasses are put into the dishwasher, and try again.

Click to expand...

Pretty much all of our glasses go through the dish washer. Could this be it? I've never had a problem with commercial beers and foam in the same glasses. I'll try the hot water rinse.

soap will definitely make a difference, detergent especially.

Try to wash your beer glasses with only hot water. I'd try soaking them in hot (~190dF) water for about 30 mins, then rinsing again. After it dries, try pouring another one. Just my thoughts.

Nope, not the glasses. I'm getting the same quarter-finger head (lol), even after soaking and rinsing a glass in hot water. With what little head is there, I'm getting lacing, so the protein levels have got to be about right. But looking at it objectively, it is fairly flat in terms of carbonation, kinda like a soda that's been sitting out for an hour or so. Still very drinkable for a first batch, though.

I guess I'll just bump up my carbing sugar next time. Is there any chance that turbinado is less potent when compared to the cane sugar that's used in calculators? To be safe, I might start using corn sugar to carb, so that I know exact what's going in there.

Frank_Rizzo said:

Nope, not the glasses. I'm getting the same quarter-finger head (lol), even after soaking and rinsing a glass in hot water. With what little head is there, I'm getting lacing, so the protein levels have got to be about right. But looking at it objectively, it is fairly flat in terms of carbonation, kinda like a soda that's been sitting out for an hour or so. Still very drinkable for a first batch, though.

I guess I'll just bump up my carbing sugar next time. Is there any chance that turbinado is less potent when compared to the cane sugar that's used in calculators? To be safe, I might start using corn sugar to carb, so that I know exact what's going in there.

Click to expand...

I don't know about turbinado sugar vs. cane sugar vs. corn sugar, but I would guess that they are a bit different, so use a priming calculator online that has different options so that you could be accurate. I don't make stouts, since I'm a pale ale lover, and usually use 4 ounces of corn sugar for all of my priming.

I think the obvious is not being zeroed in on here. There is simply not enough co2 to form a copious, long lasting head AND keep the beverage carbonated. You are enjoying the preferable of the two - well carbed beverage but if you want some good head pour it warm and fast.

In the future use more sugar that is more fermentable. I would suggest 5 oz of corn sugar. That malto dextrine that you used would not contribute at all to carbing since it virtually unfermentable. It is added strictly to contribute to mouthfeel (and ironically, head retention) but with only 2.7 oz of fermentable sugar being used to prime you simply will not get much head.

Edit to respond to new posts: Yes, the turbinado is slightly less fermentable than cane whic is slightly less fermentable than corn sugar. All in all I would estimate that you are using less than half of the required fermentable sugar to get proper carbing and head.

On the calculator I use, it says cane has more ferment power when compared to corn sugar.

Either way, it seems fairly obvious that low carb is my issue. The calculator recommends about 4.35 oz of corn sugar to be at the upper end of stout-carb levels. Does that sound about right?

The bottles have been conditioning for 4 weeks but at what temp? Maybe they need another week at 70f.

Bobby_M said:

The bottles have been conditioning for 4 weeks but at what temp? Maybe they need another week at 70f.

Click to expand...

definitely possible, i've had a huge difference in carbing speed with temperature variations. this is the calculator i use.

The Beer Recipator - Carbonation

Bobby_M said:

The bottles have been conditioning for 4 weeks but at what temp? Maybe they need another week at 70f.

Click to expand...

68-70*F (room temp). It seems like a low dose of priming sugar, unless I'm missing something. I read so much on this site before and during the brew that I think I have all the basics covered (but there's so much stuff maybe I missed something). I think for next time all I really need to change is the carbing sugar.

Frank_Rizzo said:

68-70*F (room temp). It seems like a low dose of priming sugar, unless I'm missing something. I read so much on this site before and during the brew that I think I have all the basics covered (but there's so much stuff maybe I missed something). I think for next time all I really need to change is the carbing sugar.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Everything else seems fine. I use Beersmith and it calls for between 4.25 and 5.5 oz corn sugar for pretty much every beer I do. I used to use malto dextrine occasionally before I switched to AG but I didn't adjust the priming sugar level when I did.