Is Secondary Fermentation Still Common Practice?

Hey Guys, Just a poll to see how many people still rack into secondary in all their brews.
I know that secondary can be useful in some styles however, as a hop junkie I bottle right after primary so I can consume that hoppy goodness as soon as possible.
So lets hear it, do you secondary? and on what styles?
GO!

it does not have to add time, 1 week primary, one week secondary, bottle / keg then consume.

I have been doing a secondary lately on the ones I am going to bottle to help clarity. (or to repitch right on the trub of the last batch) I also don't use whirfloc or iris moss. but am starting to, bought some whirfloc and will try it my next batch.

But to put this into perspective, out of 30 5 gallon batches this year, I have used a secondary 5 times so far....

I rarely employ a secondary in the traditional sense of the word as in a carboy or similar. I have a brett aging Saison in a carboy for the long haul so in some cases I do secondry. And since I keg I find it most convenient to dry hop or add additions in the keg, but then again, most brewers call the keg a mini-brite tank which is in fact a secondary. Semantics perhaps??

I almost always use secondary. It's the way I was taught and it's been my practice for 6+ years.

I only rack beers like sours or brett beers that are going to age a long time. All other just stay in the primary until they are ready to be kegged or bottled.

I read something interesting in the yeast book. He stated that racking to secondary actually slowed clearing. Think about it. The yeast slowly works its way to the bottom. When you rack to a secondary the yeast that was already part way down or even mostly to the bottom, all gets stirred up and has to start over. So racking actuall slows clearing.

I bulk age in the secondary before kegging. I find it gives a clearer brew without the use of clarifying agents, and avoids the first mug of flatelance inducing cloudy ale.

I rack to secondary if I'm leaving it age for longer than another week, otherwise I leave in primary and rack to a keg.

In hundreds of batches going back 25 years I've used a secondary less than 5 times and all of those were in my first 5 years of brewing. My results are no different when I use them so why risk oxidation and expend the extra effort?

beergolf said:

I read something interesting in the yeast book. He stated that racking to secondary actually slowed clearing. Think about it. The yeast slowly works its way to the bottom. When you rack to a secondary the yeast that was already part way down or even mostly to the bottom, all gets stirred up and has to start over. So racking actuall slows clearing.

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I understand the thinking behind that, but I find it to be contrary to the truth in practice - my practice at least. When I rack it de-gasses the beer which helps clearing. This is a practice I learned making wines and it often holds true with beer depending on the yeast strain.

YMMV and all that, and every time someone says X another will say Y. :rockin:

ETA: People are putting how long they have brewed in their post as if it were ammunition for the argument. I've been brewing since 1989 (27 years) and passed my BJCP somewhere in the mid-90's. Big deal. I've had good beer from new brewers and swill from "experienced" brewers; just as I've had good beer that's been racked to a secondary and beer that has not. Let the beer tell you what it wants.

I agree that if you ask 1p brewers a question you may just get 12 different answers.

I just mentioned that because Chris White knows a little about yeast.

Never used a secondary, wouldn't recommend it. It's another place infection can get in, and infection is the worst thing that can happen to a beer. Plus I'm a lazy brewer and proud of it

beergolf said:

I agree that if you ask 1p brewers a question you may just get 12 different answers.

I just mentioned that because Chris White knows a little about yeast.

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Absolutely he does ... and he fails to address this very well known behavior. Maybe it's much more common with wine yeasts? The book is beer-centric.

For one well-known example, try fermenting Skeeter-Pee. With most of the yeasts people use, de-gassing is very necessary. Racking is one way to do this. (and now we'll see posts where people don't do that and get crystal-clear SP. )

LBussy said:

(and now we'll see posts where people don't do that and get crystal-clear SP. )

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Just had to stop by and say I love this little quip.

And, I think no matter what your technique, time Is the great clearer of beer. Time and cold. Do whatever works for ya. Me? I keg so in essence I have a built is secondary and cold crash. If I bulk age I put it in a keg under pressure so it's Already in its serving vessel ready to go.

I've never done a secondary and don't plan to anytime soon.

I have only racked one beer to secondary - A stout I aged on some vanilla & caramelized lactose sugar - and even that I probably could have done in primary.

Always just do a 4 week ferment then keg.

LBussy said:

I understand the thinking behind that, but I find it to be contrary to the truth in practice - my practice at least. When I rack it de-gasses the beer which helps clearing. This is a practice I learned making wines and it often holds true with beer depending on the yeast strain.

YMMV and all that, and every time someone says X another will say Y. :rockin:

ETA: People are putting how long they have brewed in their post as if it were ammunition for the argument. I've been brewing since 1989 (27 years) and passed my BJCP somewhere in the mid-90's. Big deal. I've had good beer from new brewers and swill from "experienced" brewers; just as I've had good beer that's been racked to a secondary and beer that has not. Let the beer tell you what it wants.

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I've spent way too long watching CO2 escape from the trub/yeast layer in amazement at how awesome it is when a little bubble rises and carries some yeast up, which then drops back out. Neither my wife or daughter are nearly as amazed by it as I am. Anyway, a secondary would eliminate this piece of beer magic and as a result it'd clear quicker. Hardly worth it though, usually 2 to 3 weeks then into the keg.

I use secondary for about half my brews. The #1 main reason is to get access to that fresh pile of yeast at the time of my choosing. Once the beer has been in primary one week I view that next 1-2 weeks as a great chance to hit that yeast cake and use it fresh on a brewday. If I don't need the yeast, I'm also happy to let the beer ride out until it's done in primary.

The other reason for me is managing fermentors. I have a limited amount of fermentors and space and beer in secondary requires less of both. If I do 1 gallon brews I ferment in 3x growlers for primary or 2x growlers for secondary. Or scaled up for a 2.5 gallon batch it's 3x demijohns for primary or 2x demijohns for secondary. By racking to secondary I can have more brews going at once and the brews can have more time bulk-ageing than they otherwise would.

Can't say I've noticed much difference in clarity by using secondary vs not, but that was never the goal for me with secondary.

So many secondary posters today so I have to jump in and say I've never used one and have no plans to do in future. I have never added anything to a brew after fermentation except hops and so I can't see any reason to secondary. I'm never in a rush and I usually let my BIAB ferment for 4 weeks and then bottle. Pretty much EVERY BEER IS CLEAR.

LBussy said:

ETA: People are putting how long they have brewed in their post as if it were ammunition for the argument. I've been brewing since 1989 (27 years) and passed my BJCP somewhere in the mid-90's. Big deal. I've had good beer from new brewers and swill from "experienced" brewers; just as I've had good beer that's been racked to a secondary and beer that has not. Let the beer tell you what it wants.

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The issue is that people go through the motions "as they were taught" and never actually learn why each action was taken for the current scenario.

Each process change yields different results so there is no correct answer to the OP's question. "Secondary" can be a vessel or a process, but remains just another tool in the toolbox. More important to learn all the reasons for racking to another vessel, when to do it, why, and the other processes surrounding it.

Thanks for all the posts guys!
It's great to hear all the different techniques and methods everybody uses!

the only time i use a secondary is when im going to let a beer set in the fermenter for more than 4 weeks. I dont wanna find out if buckets do let oxidization happen over time, so i do it.

Dean_Palmer said:

Each process change yields different results so there is no correct answer to the OP's question. "Secondary" can be a vessel or a process, but remains just another tool in the toolbox. More important to learn all the reasons for racking to another vessel, when to do it, why, and the other processes surrounding it.

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QFT!

That's why I said to let the beer tell you what it wants. Saying one should never use a secondary is as incorrect as saying one should always use a secondary.

Agree...never say never. Soon as you do, you'll find yourself in a position to actually need a secondary. Case in point is a 9 month Brett Saison in a carboy (secondary) slowly chewing away, but other than that, my secondary uses are rare. I certainly agree with all of the above posts only to restate..."It all depends".

Been brewing almost a year now and never used secondary. Really don't like wasting Starsan to sanitize a secondary vessel that may or may not end up infected anyways. The fewer surfaces to contact my beer the better IMO.

I don't know that there is a right way or not honestly. I have had super clear, clean dry hopped IPA after about 2 weeks in the keg. I think time and the cold crash really filters the beer and is the major component of clarity over getting it off the cake into secondary.

To each his own, I just don't like to risk infection. Too much time and love put it on brew day to screw it up in secondary.

I did a secondary with my first 2 kits 5 1/2 years ago. And 2 since when I added oak and fruit. I don't even secondary for dry hopping. I do that in the primary.

As said, I usually don't, but will if it is called for......

I've not really bothered with them as I'm lazy but wouldn't rule it out. One thing that a lot of people seem to do wrong is they transfer it after fermentation is finished, which isn't what you want to do for most normal beers- as it is to separate the beer from the cold break, so you should really transfer within a day of brewing - so the cold break has time to settle (which takes about 12 to 15 hours or so) but the fermentation is not active enough to kick it all up. Another option is to drop the temp a bit towards the end of fermentation (say 75% of your expected attenuation) to drop yeast/protein then transfer with some residual sugars left so the remaining yeast can scavenge o2 picked up during transfer, a bit like how you would transfer to cask.

LBussy said:

ETA: People are putting how long they have brewed in their post as if it were ammunition for the argument. I've been brewing since 1989 (27 years) and passed my BJCP somewhere in the mid-90's. Big deal. I've had good beer from new brewers and swill from "experienced" brewers; just as I've had good beer that's been racked to a secondary and beer that has not. Let the beer tell you what it wants.

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Geez....I have 23 batches under my belt. I feel like a Lilliputian in a land of Gullivers!

I used a secondary for the first, oh, 3 brews, then when I read that many had similar results from just using a primary...the last 20 brews have used primary only.

I crash and fine my beer, so the clarity claims of secondary aren't that important to me. I don't see anything that would produce better beer, but then, I transfer to kegs so that could be considered a form of secondary.

Given the extra effort of secondaries for which I do not appear to be rewarded, I can see only two good uses for secondaries: very long aging, or needing to free up a primary fermenter for more beer.

I was taught to always do secondary (in a glass carboy), don't even look at the bag or you'll ruin the beer, and a bunch of other things I don't seem to remember.

I haven't done secondary forever, squeeze the bag like it stole from me, and a bunch of other things that would probably make the person who first taught me to have a stroke!

That said, I would probably go to a secondary if I was adding fruit or something similar but I'd try to do it in a keg and then move the beer into a second keg for serving.

If you use a keg for a "secondary" for clearing, you can shorten the dip tube to prevent pulling "mung" when you move it to a new keg.

Secondary, (and I use that term loosely) is incredibly handy when you only have two 6.5 gallon fermenters, and four 5 gallon fermenters. YMMV.

i rarely do unless it'll be aged for longer than a week or two after it's done fermenting.

One question i've had is if adding a small amount (maybe 2-3 oz) of boiled sugar to the secondary before racking will help do a mini ferment to blow out any of the oxygen in the head space. anyone tried this or know if it will work to avoid oxidation in the secondary?

Been brewing a month. I only move to secondary if I'm starting out in a bucket. The bucket doesn't seal and I can't watch the bubbles, which I greatly enjoy.

I started brewjng in 1981. If I knew then what I know now.....

Hardly EVER do secondary. Just a big glass temperature controlled carboy for up to a month. No infections, no autolysis, no blowouts, great award winning beer. Now for long aging, like in wines, I still fear old yeast and too much headspace.

domdom said:

One question i've had is if adding a small amount (maybe 2-3 oz) of boiled sugar to the secondary before racking will help do a mini ferment to blow out any of the oxygen in the head space. anyone tried this or know if it will work to avoid oxidation in the secondary?

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If you're trying to avoid oxidation (which you should be doing, so good for you) it would make more sense to not even rack to secondary in the first place.

If you for some reason think that you must rack to secondary (but really, you don't), purge the vessel with CO2 FIRST. The key is to move the beer under a "blanket" of CO2. Adding sugar to finished beer in order to create CO2 later is too little, too late. The beer will have already been exposed to the air.

This is all a moot point, because for every one instance in which you could theoretically justify racking to secondary, there are a dozen reasons not to do it. I still remember the first beer in which I didn't rack to secondary. It was the first beer I was proud to pour for people. I haven't looked back since.

This is what I do. Whirlfloc in the boil, ferment for two weeks in primary (plenty of time for most beers(and no less), crash to 32 degrees for 1 day, 1/2 teaspoon gelatin in keg, keg beer, hook up to gas in fridge, wait one week to ten days, enjoy crystal clear delicious beer on tap.

TheBeerist said:

This is all a moot point, because for every one instance in which you could theoretically justify racking to secondary, there are a dozen reasons not to do it. I still remember the first beer in which I didn't rack to secondary. It was the first beer I was proud to pour for people. I haven't looked back since.

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It's not a moot point for all of us, it may be for you. When I rack to a secondary there are definite reasons. I've my ribbons and scores (including a couple BOS) to prove my choices were the right ones for me.

I'm glad you have a process that works for you. It is exceedingly incorrect to say that it's the only way.

LBussy said:

It's not a moot point for all of us, it may be for you. When I rack to a secondary there are definite reasons. I've my ribbons and scores (including a couple BOS) to prove my choices were the right ones for me.

I'm glad you have a process that works for you. It is exceedingly incorrect to say that it's the only way.

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Lee, under what conditions or purposes do you use a secondary? The reasons I know are A) to free up the primary for more beer, B) long-term aging, or C) for some specific kind of additions (fruit, maybe something else).

You say to let the beer tell you what it needs; what are you cuing in on when you decide a beer needs a secondary?

Only to rack onto fruit or long term sour.. I have a conical so "secondary" is a dump valve away

mongoose33 said:

Lee, under what conditions or purposes do you use a secondary?

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• To help degass a slow-clearing [beer/wine/mead/cider]
• To reduce headspace after a violent primary or before aging
• To remove the [beer/wine/mead/cider] from the gross lees before long-term aging
• To rack onto [wood/fruit/spices]
• Secondary fermentation with a different culture
• Restart a stuck fermentation
• Rack into a non-permeable carboy if fermentation was started in a somewhat permeable container (I often do top-cropping so buckets are not out of the question)

Those are the ones that come to mind before my coffee. These are not hard and fast rules either, rather some cases where I use a secondary. I certainly don't always use one, but neither do I avoid it when it's the right thing to do. Some of these can also be done without racking. I know a person who is inclined to not use a secondary can be creative. The point is; it's a tool to be used as appropriate.

While using a secondary can be a cause of oxidation and or contamination, in my process I mitigate those concerns and they are not as much a factor as they seem to be for some. Some things I do are:

• Use a metal racking cane
• Use new tubing
• Sanitation (of course!)
• Rack under a blanket of CO2 or Argon
• Minimize splashing
• Use lab procedures/a heat source to minimize airborne critters

Just never say never is all I'm saying/suggesting.

Secondary Fermenter? You might as well just rack it into your toilet and keep it there for a few weeks instead. It would have the same effect on the beer....

Just kidding. I'm a new brewer and I like the idea of the secondary for clarity, so that's what I do.