Big Beers - longer in primary/secondary?

Hi there,

So far Iv only brewed beers that have been 1036-1045. I typically leave in primary for 2 weeks, then secondary for 2 weeks. Else leave in primary for 3-4 weeks and bottle.

My current beer (porter) was 1062. After 5 days its only 1030 with safale-05 so it might take awhile to ferment. Im wondering if its better to leave an extra week in primary or if that weeks better spent in secondary?

Note, im not going to bottle until at least 2weeks are up and FG 1016ish is reached. Just wondering if its better to leave 3 weeks primary or use that extra week in secondary.

Cheers.

Kiwi_Jonno said:

Hi there,

So far Iv only brewed beers that have been 1036-1045. I typically leave in primary for 2 weeks, then secondary for 2 weeks. Else leave in primary for 3-4 weeks and bottle.

My current beer (porter) was 1062. After 5 days its only 1030 with safale-05 so it might take awhile to ferment. Im wondering if its better to leave an extra week in primary or if that weeks better spent in secondary?

Note, im not going to bottle until at least 2weeks are up and FG 1016ish is reached. Just wondering if its better to leave 3 weeks primary or use that extra week in secondary.

Cheers.

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Keep it in the primary 4 or 5 weeks if needed, IMO*.



*cue autolysis theorists

xamers said:

Keep it in the primary 4 or 5 weeks if needed, IMO*.

*cue autolysis theorists

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If was in primary 4-5 weeks wouldn't be worth doing a primary? Would just bottle afterwards?

Another thought would be 3 weeks primary 2 weeks secondary?

I would let it sit in primary for about 2 weeks, then rack to secondary and let it finish fermenting/clearing for about another 2-3 weeks. Depending upon the gravity, package at that time or let it sit a few days longer. I have made many big beers (1.080+) using this technique and it works for me.

1.062 with safale 05 should be a bit lower than that I would think. Unless you are fermenting below 65F.... What temp did you take a gravity reading..... I love that yeast and it ferments like crazy.... 1.030 could be close though....But 1.062 is not that big

Ferment in primary until the foamy head falls
Then go to secondary for 2 weeks Possibly 3 weeks but I doubt it will take that long. The last week raise temp to 70. Good Luck

Dark_Ale said:

1.062 with safale 05 should be a bit lower than that I would think. Unless you are fermenting below 65F.... What temp did you take a gravity reading..... I love that yeast and it ferments like crazy.... 1.030 could be close though....But 1.062 is not that big

Ferment in primary until the foamy head falls
Then go to secondary for 2 weeks Possibly 3 weeks but I doubt it will take that long. The last week raise temp to 70. Good Luck

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No I meant the current gravity was 1030, OG was 1062, and its MEANT to go down to 1016.

Safale 05 does seem to be a vigorous fermenting yeast. Though I think the Coopers yeast was the fastest and more vigorous!

Its been one week in primary and still bubbling steadily. Gonna wait a week until I check gravity again.

I pitched @ 71.5*F, but after 12hours it was 64.5*F and has been there since.

Leave it in the primary at least until the gravity is stable. Taking it off the yeast cake will only drag out the fermentation. 3-4 weeks in the primary & bottle is probably a good approach for this one. As the fermentation slows down, the yeast will clear.

david_42 said:

3-4 weeks in the primary & bottle is probably a good approach for this one. As the fermentation slows down, the yeast will clear.

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+1 one on this...and then a long period of bottle conditioning.

I know from my porters and stouts that it took 6-8 weeks before I had any decent carbonation in the bottles and they still needed time to let go of the greenishness.

Another variation would be to bulk condition it in the secondary for 6-8 weeks. That is what I do with my robust porter that starts at 1.062. The only way you can really go wrong is to transfer it too soon from the primary if you decide to do a secondary. That removes your beer from the yeast and as david 42 said will prolong fermentation if it wasn't done and then you don't have alot of yeast to clean up in the secondary.

GT

Just an update...

The beer is now 1024 (OG 1062) after 12 days. Its temp is 16*C, am thinking I should perhaps raise it to 18*C now? Its bubbling but very slowly. Its lost 6 gravity points in the last 7 days.

Also, Im wondering what the point of a secondary is when your bottling? Secondary is to clear the beer and let the yeast drop out. But after you prime the beer the yeast starts up again in the bottle, and the yeast multiplys again... wouldn't that 2 weeks in primary just as well be used bottle conditioning?

Lastly, after I rack, I lose about an inch from the fementer. With seconday are you meant to leave an inch behind again?

Thanks

Kiwi_Jonno said:

Just an update...

The beer is now 1024 (OG 1062) after 12 days. Its temp is 16*C, am thinking I should perhaps raise it to 18*C now? Its bubbling but very slowly. Its lost 6 gravity points in the last 7 days.

Also, Im wondering what the point of a secondary is when your bottling? Secondary is to clear the beer and let the yeast drop out. But after you prime the beer the yeast starts up again in the bottle, and the yeast multiplys again... wouldn't that 2 weeks in primary just as well be used bottle conditioning?

Lastly, after I rack, I lose about an inch from the fementer. With seconday are you meant to leave an inch behind again?

Thanks

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If it's bubbling, let it go bubble. Give it a few days after it stops bubbling (2-3) before taking your first FG hydrometer reading to check fermentation status. This way, you're looking at 2-3 days of hydrometer readings, and if they are stable, that means you've had anywhere from 2-6 days worth of the beer resting up and cleaning up all the nasty byproducts that were made. It sounds like you've had some pretty constant activity the whole time too. Rock on.

I'd think with the secondary it's not so much a volume amount as long as it's drawing up as much of the secondary as possible without disturbing sediment. Try propping your carboy up on a 2 inch or so incline and letting everything settle for half an hour before racking. You might be able to get more of the beer by tipping it ever so gently.

The beer doesn't seem to be dropping any more gravity Points...

OG = 1062

5 days = 1030
12 days = 1024
18 days = 1024

The beer has been 16*C, but the last few days I raised it to 18*C. Would 1024 create beer bombs? Beer Smith sait 1016 would be the F.G. It fermented steadily the fist 12 days or so, but now has clearly stopped...

U can try lighting shaking without oxidizing to get the yeast back in suspention, might give you those last few points u need

SporkD2 said:

U can try lighting shaking without oxidizing to get the yeast back in suspention, might give you those last few points u need

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Is "Beer Smith" normally accurate with its FG readings? Tho 8 points is a bit to be out. If I rock the fermenter, it will take a week or so to settle back down?

It won't oxidize, there's no O2 in there. I'm sick of people worrying about that when all the O2 has either been consumed by the yeast or pushed out by the CO2 that's been generated. Swirl that carboy up with wild abandon and get the yeast back into suspension, your fermentation is stuck.

Yup. You're stuck. Rouse the yeast.

You're at 60% attenuation. US05 is a medium-attenuating yeast, sure, but 60% is out of line. Swirl, swirl, swirl.

Cheers,

Bob

EvilTOJ said:

It won't oxidize, there's no O2 in there. I'm sick of people worrying about that when all the O2 has either been consumed by the yeast or pushed out by the CO2 that's been generated. Swirl that carboy up with wild abandon and get the yeast back into suspension, your fermentation is stuck.

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damn right!

EvilTOJ said:

It won't oxidize, there's no O2 in there. I'm sick of people worrying about that when all the O2 has either been consumed by the yeast or pushed out by the CO2 that's been generated. Swirl that carboy up with wild abandon and get the yeast back into suspension, your fermentation is stuck.

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+1 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Recently on Basic Brewing Radio someone (it might have been John Palmer himself) said that the PPM of O2 needed to oxydize our beer is really beyond the average homebrewer's ability to produce by normal activity or even by any accident short of us actually taking our O2 setup, putting it in our bottling bucket and emptying the can into the beer....

Evidently now the big thing is after 12 hours of fermentation to actually give your fermenter another minute of O2 to give the yeasties a kick in the a$$.

i have a friend that shakes up his fermenter (vigorously) for DAYS after fermentation has begun. there's so much co2 in there, nothing is going to get back in. he's made some amazing stuff and he uses this method every time.

BobNQ3X said:

Yup. You're stuck. Rouse the yeast.

You're at 60% attenuation. US05 is a medium-attenuating yeast, sure, but 60% is out of line. Swirl, swirl, swirl.

Cheers,

Bob

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OK so I gave it a good swirl for 30sec or so, beer "splashed" up onto the lid etc so was well swirled. Its been 3-4 days since and the damn beer is still at 1024! It might have dropped 1point, but I might have measured inaccurately too. Any thoughts what to do now? I can see a thick yeast deposit at the bottom of the fermenter. I think the yeast has settled down for good...

What would happen If I bottled? Its been 25 days primary so far...

Any thoughts? Does it matter if FG is 1021 from 1062?

No ideas anyone? Has anyone else had a stuck fermentation thats this far off its FG?

I should just bottle it? Gravity is 1021, so if I used the priming calculater and work out the amount of priming sugar for porter for 1.9 carbonation. Am thinking that if its carbed lower then it will counter if it ferments lower in the bottle?

It depends on the beer... I have a 1.100 belgian finish under 1.020 but it was HEAVY on candi and lyles golden syrup...