Kolsch lagering

Well I brewed my first Kolsch on Tuesday and it's looking pretty well done with primary fermentation. I want to get it off its yeast cake and into secondary. Assuming it has reached its final gravity what is the proper procedure for lagering a Kolsch. I've heard and read a multitude of opinions on this forum in terms of temperatures and time lengths. Do I let it complete secondary at the fermentation temps, or go right to cold conditioning?

As of right now I was planning on transferring it to secondary, letting it sit for 3 or 4 days at fermentation temps, and then giving it 4 weeks or so in the garage with temps in the low 40s. Does this sound unreasonable? I'm sure there's a better way to do it.
-Ben

If memory serves me correctly, Kolsch is a top fermenter (an ale).

There's no need to lager it, but if you did lager it as you would any other lager.

Maybe Lager was a poor word to use. Cold Condition would perhaps have been better. I've read several places that a good Kolsch involves a long Cold Conditioning period.
-Ben

OK, just making sure you know the difference...

Directions I've found is to basement/cold condition your secondary from 1-3 weeks. Bottle to condition followed by 3 weeks in the fridge (could be considered lagering).

I bought a Kolsch kit from More Beer. The final instructions say to "cold storage for 2-3 months". Not sure how cold "cold storage" is. The coldes spot in my basement is about 50^ F, so I was going to use that.

I used the recommended WLP Kossch ale yeast.

50 is probably the highest you'd want to see for "cold storage." Try and get the temp below 40 if you can.

I know this isn't technically a lager, but most lagering is done in the 32-40 degree range.

I've made 2 Kolsch's in my brewing career and they were both failures IMO.

I've vowed never again.

I am gonna try brewing a Kolsch soon. I have never had Kolsch before but sampled one at the local pub recently and it was awesome. I like the recipe in The Homebrewer's Recipe Guide. It calls for both an ale yeast and lager yeast, both pitched at the same time in primary. Then lagering the secondary.
My plan is to use the yeast cake from my current lager primary once I rack it, along with an ale starter.
I'll post how it goes.

SkaBoneBenny said:

Maybe Lager was a poor word to use. Cold Condition would perhaps have been better. I've read several places that a good Kolsch involves a long Cold Conditioning period.
-Ben

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3 months is when the true flavor starts to come out. I left mine in my fridge (about 42°F ) for 5 months. I was traveling between SA and Nashville on a contract, home 2 weeks, gone a month so it never got in the way. Bottled it an I let it bottle condition for another month. Came out awesome.

If you don't let it "cold condition" for at least 3 months (IMO) you are wasting your time brewing it. A good kolsch needs a long cold conditioning before any of the flavors even come out.

Once I get the brew shack built (this month ) I plan on brewing one 'cuz I'll have a place for it to live, I want it to be ready for the 4th of July.

knipknup said:

I I like the recipe in The Homebrewer's Recipe Guide. It calls for both an ale yeast and lager yeast, both pitched at the same time in primary.

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That might make an interesting beer, but it ain't no Koelsch. Similar too many beer styles, you need to use the correct yeast to get a beer that's close to the original.

Mixing an ale and lager yeast won't do it.

Mikey said:

That might make an interesting beer, but it ain't no Koelsch. Similar too many beer styles, you need to use the correct yeast to get a beer that's close to the original.

Mixing an ale and lager yeast won't do it.

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I've been wondering what good it would do to mix an ale yeast with a lager yeast. All things considered they work at 2 different temp ranges - if it's too low, the ale yeast will just go dormant - if it's too high, the lager yeast will just go dormant.

And yes, considering a kolsch is an ale, I really don't see what good it would do to throw in a lager yeast. It is a very common misconception that it's a lager.

FWIW - the correct spelling is kölsch.

Try reading this.

I plan on putting my "kölsch" into my fridge for a month or two for cold conditioning. This is my first one, so Im learning as I go.

dcbrewmeister said:

FWIW - the correct spelling is kölsch.

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True enough- but if you don't have an 'ö' on your keyboard or know the ASCII code for it (154) then the letters 'oe' together are acceptable.

Same as using 'ss' when you can't type 'ß'

I used the HTML version & # 2 4 6 ; remove spaces. Got it from this site

Mikey said:

Mixing an ale and lager yeast won't do it.

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What you could do is adding lager yeast as Kraeusen before the secondary fermentation and then lagering. I believe that some Koelsh breweries might do this, but I'm not sure if it is worth the effort for the home brewer. If the beer is done fermenting you can drop the temp as much as you can. Near freezing would be best. This will also help dropping out the low floculating Koelsch yeast.

Though Koelsch and Alt are Ales, they are considered hybrids as they are fermented warm and then treated like lagers.

Kai

dcbrewmeister said:

FWIW - the correct spelling is kölsch.

Try reading this.

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Not only that, it comes from Köln, not Cologne.

Köln is German and Cologne is the French version of that name.

I lived in Germany for 9 years and several times Germans have asked my why Americans change the names of some towns and not others. For instance, München is not Munich, Nuremberg is not Nürnberg. I told them it had to do with the umlaut. Americans can't get it right.

Plus Americans speak English not German. That's why you call it Germany and not Deutschland .

Ah, true, but English is a Germanic language.

Supposedly Webster put the phonetics in the dictionary so we could lose our British accents.

Incidently, why isn't "phonetics" spelled "fonetix"?

homebrewer_99 said:

Not only that, it comes from Köln, not Cologne.

Köln is German and Cologne is the French version of that name.

I lived in Germany for 9 years and several times Germans have asked my why Americans change the names of some towns and not others. For instance, München is not Munich, Nuremberg is not Nürnberg. I told them it had to do with the umlaut. Americans can't get it right.

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These names were in common use in England long before America was even a country.......... The practice of changing the name of a foreign place exists in just about every language -not just in English- and has nothing to do with America or Webster's dictionary.

Who can tell me where 'Nova Iorque' is and why it is necessary to spell it that way?

What about 'Virginie Occidental'?

I would guess New York (Nueva York in Spanish) and West Virginia. Changing names is certainly not a uniquely American pasttime...according to the Mexicans I live in Carolina del Norte and many don't even understand North Carolina.

Baron von BeeGee said:

I would guess New York (Nueva York in Spanish) and West Virginia.

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Right you are. Nova Iorque is Portuguese for New York. There's no W, Y or K in the traditional alphabet used there. Virginie Occidental is french for West Virginia.

Germans spell it 'Kanada' to suit their pronunciation rules come to think of it.
They also change 'Zatec' into 'Saaz' and 'Budějovice' into 'Budweiser'.

How many of us searched the map trying to find the city of 'Ausfarht' the first time we visited Germany by car?

Back to topic...

I would condition for 2-3 mos.

As for yeast, going true to style may be 'the only way to go', but compromises can be made somtimes if it gives us the best result with a little less effort.

I do know the White Labs California Ale yeast will ferment beautifully in lager temperatures. Watched a small batch bubble away, top shelf of fridge next to the cold air vent. And FYI anything else that close freezes.

In the end if it is great beer, who the h*** cares!

I would ferment it like a normal ale, carbonate as normal, then find a cold place to keep it. Be that a fridge or a cool garage. If you pick the garage find a wall next to the house so it won't freeze on you. If you have a detached garage, I would put it in the basement and forget about if for a few months. A spare fridge would be the best though...

Good Luck!

Here is my thread from last spring on doing a Koelsch without true lagering capabilities:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10187

I cellared mine for 11 weeks at 55 and then kegged and conditioned for two more weeks at about 38. i will definitely be doing that same recipe this winter, although I'll probably do 4 weeks of cellar temps in the secondary and four weeks in teh fridge now that I have one.

Well I sort of mixed the advice I got. Also, I guess there's little need to start a new thread about this because I'll say it here, "Global Warming is f#cking up my brewing!"

I've lived in Massachusetts my entire life and never experienced anything like this. Any other year in January it would be in the low 30's or 20's almost all of the time. This year, I can count on one hand the number of below freezing days we've had in December and January. Temperatures have been averaging in the 40's and 50's, and they say it might even hit 60 this weekend. Not only that, but the ground isn't frozen and we havnt had so much as an inch of snow. Instead, the midwest is getting choked with blizzards and it periodically snows in Israel.

The point of this entire rant is, my garage temperatures really suck. It's a nice constant 48-50 degrees inside the garage. My poor Kolsch.... I guess I'll leave it in there for a month or two, warm it up, then bottle it.
-Ben

SkaBoneBenny - I don't want to start a big debate on global warming, but I grew up in Maine and remember one christmas having green grass. Feb, Mar., and Apr. we got nailed and got tons of snow. It was the late '70's IIRC. It's not that uncommon for weather to go in cycles.

I distinctly remember at the end of the '05 hurricane season the "experts" saying this season would be worse - not "could" be, but "would" be. They were wrong.

Be it Global Warming, God's idea of a joke, or just a really really freakish winter, it's messing up my brewing. Regardless of the cause, it sucks. Perhaps I ranted a bit too much.
-Ben

Mikey said:

...and 'Budějovice' into 'Budweiser'.

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I call it sh*t.

knipknup said:

I call it sh*t.

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Me too, but it wasn't the Germans that commited that particular sin...............