One brewer's ideas

Recently I visited a pub-brewery and had a chat to the brewer there. His beer was great. He had a lot of interesting things to say. Let me share a few with you that stand out in my mind.

Brewing is a philosophy.
Don't think of brewing in terms of right or wrong. If something works for you don't be put off if someone else says you are doing it wrong. Be open minded to those who want to share ideas but don't be a slave to the ideas of those that tell you there is only one way to do it.

Re-using yeast.
He has been using the same yeast for years. He estimates he has brewed over 2500 batches with his current yeast. He doesn't wash between re-uses. He has done cell counts in the past, can equate that to a weight, so he weighs then re-pitches. He has heard the 10 use maximum mantra many times but (obviously) doesn't subscribe to it.

Brewing time.
Seven days from grain to glass. In any business time is money so he doesn't want to wait weeks for fermentation and maturation. He doesn't brew beers that need conditioning time and he doesn't believe a lot of beers that are conditioned need it anyway. He wasn't saying all styles can be done this fast. He brews ales.

So there you go. Make of that what you will. It gave me some food for thought (beer is food).

eviljafar said:

Brewing time.
Seven days from grain to glass. In any business time is money so he doesn't want to wait weeks for fermentation and maturation. He doesn't brew beers that need conditioning time and he doesn't believe a lot of beers that are conditioned need it anyway. He wasn't saying all styles can be done this fast. He brews ales.

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Wow. That is something. I dont even see how that is possible.

cubbies said:

Wow. That is something. I dont even see how that is possible.

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FWIW, I've heard Jamil Z say that English Milds and Ordinary Bitters can be ready to drink in 7-10 days.

eviljafar said:

He wasn't saying all styles can be done this fast. He brews ales.

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Wow, that must really limit his style selection. Without exception, my ales need conditioning time. Heck, some of them aren't even done fermenting after 7 days, let alone drinkable!

I certainly agree with his philosphy that if it works for you, go with it. Grain to glass in 7 days? That doesn't work for me, so I won't go with it

Cheers!

I've done really light blondes and bitters that ferment out completely in 3 days. However, they still taste like yeast bombs for at least another week. After that, they go into the keg and get the gas. Yet again it tastes like sheeet until the carbonic acid mellows. I just don't know how you can get a drinkable beer in a week. 3 weeks is my minimum and I try to wait longer.

Bobby_M said:

it tastes like sheeet until the carbonic acid mellows.

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Pretty sure I've experienced this-what does this stuff actually taste like? I've found that premature beer tastes very similar, regardless of style, and after 3-5 weeks in the bottle, that all fades and I can really taste the beer. Would pasteurization and artificial carbonation make it possible to serve beer in that short of time?

eviljafar said:

Re-using yeast.
He has been using the same yeast for years. He estimates he has brewed over 2500 batches with his current yeast. He doesn't wash between re-uses. He has done cell counts in the past, can equate that to a weight, so he weighs then re-pitches. He has heard the 10 use maximum mantra many times but (obviously) doesn't subscribe to it.

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While he may not subscribe to the 10 use guideline, he is subject to the constraints and conditions that influence that recommendation.... Just because he chooses to continually reuse his yeast doesn't mean that it hasn't mutated on him.

I think a lot of his ability to reuse yeast is because it's a conical. Figure you dump off at least 3/4 of the trub layer first which represents the least viable, first floculated yeast (along with any non-yeast sediment). You harvest the 1/4 layer that's left which represents the most viable, last to floc yeast.

It would be interesting to hear more about his specific techniques (mash temps, mash times, clearing tanks, filtration, carbing methods...etc.)

I can go from grain to glass in 14 days for extremely light ales...using gelatin to help clear yeast, but I wouldn't want to do that for medium-heavy beers.

I'm guessing that he uses a lot of yeast per batch compared to what we use. This coupled with the fact that he probably oxygenates inline on the way into the fermenter gives him a fast and vigorous ferment that is done within 2-3 days. Once the krausen falls and the beer clears, he cranks down the temp for a day, then pumps through a filter and in-line carbonation system into a bright tank. A day or two to settle in the bright tank and he's done. I think a week would be possible with all the right equipment. I bet it still tastes a little green at first though.

Hopefully I bump into the guy again one day and I can ask him a few more questions. I was also amazed that he makes beer so fast that tastes so good. In hindsight I wished I'd asked more about some of the things you guys are eluding to. To follow up of a few things mentioned above:

-I think he had 5 or 6 styles on tap but says he rotates through 12 styles.
-I only had one beer, an IPA, which is a favourite style of mine. It was great, I really liked it and it didn't taste green or lacking in any way.
-He didn't mention yeast mutation but said that dead yeast problems result from putting yeast in an unhealthy environment.
-He uses conical fermenters. He also pointed out that the convection caused by the cooling sleeve circulates the wort and helps fermentation speed.
-He filters all his beers.

eviljafar said:

Hopefully I bump into the guy again one day and I can ask him a few more questions. I was also amazed that he makes beer so fast that tastes so good. In hindsight I wished I'd asked more about some of the things you guys are eluding to. To follow up of a few things mentioned above:

-I think he had 5 or 6 styles on tap but says he rotates through 12 styles.
-I only had one beer, an IPA, which is a favourite style of mine. It was great, I really liked it and it didn't taste green or lacking in any way.
-He didn't mention yeast mutation but said that dead yeast problems result from putting yeast in an unhealthy environment.
-He uses conical fermenters. He also pointed out that the convection caused by the cooling sleeve circulates the wort and helps fermentation speed.
-He filters all his beers.

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And clearly doesn't offer a lager. I don't see how he could offer Imperial beers or big belgian beers either.

My brewing is no longer a business and so I personally don't push beer. Time does great things to beer, not months of time mind you, but a few extra weeks or days can really make a lot of difference. You can get a beer out in a week, but why? Also equipment in a pub is different, just temperature control alone will make a huge difference.

The single thing I suggest focusing on is fermentation. Use good yeast, watch your temperature schedule. Don't over or under pitch, and I would not use a yeast more the 5 or 6 times.

But as the brewer said, it is your beer so do what you feel like doing.