Need the last push to a boil

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joshesmusica

joshesmusica

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I had problems before with my electric stove. Now I've moved and it has an induction stove, so I was excited to see if I could get about 16-17 liters boiling, I generally do either 9 or 12 liter biab batches when it's all grain. I couldn't, my 19L pot is just too wide.
I've tried wrapping it, that didn't help. It can get up to about 95c or so, but I just need that extra last kick.
So I've asked the only lhbs around what people do here, or if there's some kind of electric apparatus that people use to help boil and he said a lot of people have use electric charcoal starters to help. Is there anybody who's using one of these out there that could give advice on whether or not it's a smart/viable solution?
 
MaxStout said:
Boiling with the lid off allows DMS precursors to vent off.
Click to expand...

yes, exactly why. when i do all extract or partial mash, i boil with the lid partially off (mostly on). but on my first 3 all-grain ones there was a bad off-flavor that i wrote off as DMS (i was assuming that because of needing the lid on). but i had one other hunch that it could be the pH of my mash, and the fact that all these three were pale ale, wheat, and very light/hybrid pilsner, and i didn't have any acid malt.

but now i'm wondering if one of those charcoal starters will work because i know there's not any other kind of immersion boiler thing here in norway, before i try the acid malt thing. although the acid malt would be cheaper now, if it ruins another batch because of the boil, i'll be pretty disappointed.
 
joshesmusica said:
yes, exactly why. when i do all extract or partial mash, i boil with the lid partially off (mostly on). but on my first 3 all-grain ones there was a bad off-flavor that i wrote off as DMS (i was assuming that because of needing the lid on). but i had one other hunch that it could be the pH of my mash, and the fact that all these three were pale ale, wheat, and very light/hybrid pilsner, and i didn't have any acid malt.

but now i'm wondering if one of those charcoal starters will work because i know there's not any other kind of immersion boiler thing here in norway, before i try the acid malt thing. although the acid malt would be cheaper now, if it ruins another batch because of the boil, i'll be pretty disappointed.
Click to expand...

DMS gives a "cooked vegetable" or "corn" taste. Is that what you encountered?

Perhaps it wasn't present in extract brews due to most of those impurities being driven off in the extract production process by the mfr. I know that many extract brewers do late boil extract additions without any problems.
 
Boiling with the lid on or partially on will still vent steam and will still drive off DMS.
And yes, electric charcoal starters DO work as immersion heaters (a lot of people use them for this here in sweden), but you should use a GFCI and obviously not immerse too much or too little of it.
 
alphaomega said:
Boiling with the lid on or partially on will still vent steam and will still drive off DMS.
And yes, electric charcoal starters DO work as immersion heaters (a lot of people use them for this here in sweden), but you should use a GFCI and obviously not immerse too much or too little of it.
Click to expand...

what does gfci mean? and how would i be sure not to immerse too much or too little?
 
Ground fault current interrupter (jordfelsbrytare på svenska).
Quite easy. Plug it in, just a few seconds will do. Carefully touch it. The part that gets hot should be immersed. The handle should not. So the liquid level should be between these two points.
 
The bucket water heaters sometimes (or many times as I have read) shut off around boiling. I built my own heat stick and it works great. I do 6 gal boils (starting at 7.5gal for a 90 min boil) on the stove top and with the heat stick I only need the stove at 6 or 7 to get a rolling boil with the stick ( if both are at full its a pretty violent boil).

This is what I used as my guide, although I'm use the voltage is a bit different in your area.
 
alphaomega said:
Ground fault current interrupter (jordfelsbrytare på svenska).
Quite easy. Plug it in, just a few seconds will do. Carefully touch it. The part that gets hot should be immersed. The handle should not. So the liquid level should be between these two points.
Click to expand...

another question, are the heating elements on those easy/safe to bend? i read on the norwegian homebrewing site that one guy bent it so that the electric part will for sure be on the outside of the pot.
 
If I were you'd I'd be looking to build a heatstick (or order one) as the elements are generally stainless and are designed to be immersible, going to assume the charcoal starters you use out in Norway are different than the ones in Canada as I'd never consider dropping one of those in a kettle unless I enjoy the feeling of voltage coursing through my body :p
 
vincentAlpha said:
If I were you'd I'd be looking to build a heatstick (or order one) as the elements are generally stainless and are designed to be immersible, going to assume the charcoal starters you use out in Norway are different than the ones in Canada as I'd never consider dropping one of those in a kettle unless I enjoy the feeling of voltage coursing through my body :p
Click to expand...

i know it seems weird, but it seems like after some researching through the norwegian homebrewers site that lots of people are doing it. as long as one uses a gfci, as mentioned above, it seems like it'll work. and i don't know if the price for building one here after buying all the separate material will actually save that much money, as material is quite expensive, but so are the water boilers. just trying to find an alternative that will fit my budget!
 
joshesmusica said:
another question, are the heating elements on those easy/safe to bend? i read on the norwegian homebrewing site that one guy bent it so that the electric part will for sure be on the outside of the pot.
Click to expand...

You can absolutely bend them if you just practice some caution, not doing to sharp bends. Use a broomstick handle to bend around or just by hand.

@vincentAlpha: It is not really all that crazy. I've ordered a few immersion heaters off of eBay. The elements were not grounded. They were also several times more expensive than the charcoal starters (that seems to be properly grounded).
There are stainless ones around, but you might have to look around a bit (they seem to have been more common here in sweden a few years ago).

Personally, I wouldn't use one as a 'solution', but I have been guilty of using one as a temporary measure myself. It is quite easy to over engineer stuff. I use a 3.5 kW induction hob and a 36 liter pot and love it. Easy to use, easy to clean, but a bit pricey.
I started out my all grain brewing by boiling in a plastic fermenting bucket with 3 heaters of 1kW each, taken from water boiling kettles. Dirt cheap and in some ways, that was even better than my current setup. I was just never comfortable boiling in plastic, I had nightmares that the thing would crack and a full batch of boiling wort would flood my home and the third degree burns and expensive re-flooring that would follow.
Now I could just have put it inside a larger bucket, but really I was tired of ghetto styling it.

Sorry for the rant, my point was just that it is very possibly use ghetto style solutions, and be very frugal in building a very functional setup.
 
@alphaOmega no worries, not trying to dissuade from improvised methods at all. I'm fairly certain it is a difference in the products between the two regions as all the charcoal starters I've seen here are... well give me the impression of free flowing 120V current haha. But if it works and is safe then go for it, I'll even keep it in mind myself as for some reason immersion heaters are somewhat difficult to track down here for some reason and I've been debating scaling up to 1 larger pot vs. 2 smaller ones since my stove likely can't get 28L of wort to a boil off of one element.
 
I would get one of these..back when I was brewing on the electric stove, I could use just this and get it to a rolling boil. I still have mine and occasionally use it for a rare 5 gallon quicky batch if I am brewing a kit or a test batch of something I am not ready to go all out on a 10 gallon batch for yet.
Dont forget this will need you to buy the proper element for it..for 115v get the 2000w element..
All told, the stick, cord you would need for the plug, and element puts you right in the $100 dollar investment ballpark. Well worth it for a quality product that works great for just this need.

http://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm
 
If you wanted to get crazy and had access to a fire pit of some sort, you could heat rocks in a fire and put them into the pot. A few fist sized rocks should supplement fine.
 
joshesmusica said:
i saw this on brewdogs. this won't mess with the flavor profile at all?
Click to expand...

If you use the right rocks and actually get them hot enough, it will be one of the few ways most homebrewers can achieve real carmelization!

:off:

Funny thing is, this was a method used, I believe, for accurate step mashing back in the day. Temperature measurement was still crude but math was advanced and scales were accurate. X #'s of mash at Y temp (calculated from the percentage of boiling and room temp water plus room temp grain) + A #s of stones at fire temp = new mash temp of 150 f. The amount of trial and error to get there since they did not know the temperature of the stones in the fire was probably massive but once they figured it out, scaling up or down was just math.

Stones were used because then could store more energy per # while water could only store a much smaller amount due to the pesky boiling.
 
well folks, problem solved. no need to purchase anything. just needed to bust out the wetsuit! got up to 101C without a lid when i wrapped my wetsuit around the BK. thank goodness for that part in my life when i decided i wanted to learn to surf, and my wife who wouldn't let me sell it.
 
Onkel_Udo said:
Pretty much it does. Atmospheric pressure is the variable unless you are using a pressure cooker.
Click to expand...

i suppose it was sitting at the bottom. when i adjusted it to sitting at the top it was reading 100. nice rolling boil throughout, which is all that matters i suppose.
 

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