Progress with Mirror Pond clone?

Since CYBI's attempt to clone this brew, I have been using the information from the podcast as a guideline to develop my own clone.

Here is my latest recipe and process:

5.5 gal batch.
OG: 1.056
FG: 1.014
ABV: 5.4% (higher than I wanted it; aiming for around 5.0%)
SRM: 11
IBUs: 37ish

10.5 lbs. English pale ale malt (Gambrinus) [90.44%]
1.0 lb. Crystal 75L [8.26%]
0.15 lb. Carapils [1.3%]

1.2 oz. Cascade [5.4%] at 60
1.2 oz. Cascade [5.4%] at 30
1.5 oz. Cascade [5.4%] at 5
1.5 oz. Cascade [5.4%] at 0

Wyeast 1968 starter

Comments:

- On it's way to being balanced between bitterness and maltiness. Might
need a bit more malt flavour. A touch more crystal? Already seems a bit
high to me; maybe not (?)
- Flavour and aroma hops are very forward and have a bit of a rubbery,
though not unpleasant, taste that I have found that lots of Casacde can
have (might just be me).

Wondering what experiences any of you have had with trying to come up with something close to this fantastic pale ale?

I did one similar to yours, but I used only 1/2 lb of 60 crystal, and a dry hop with both centennial and cascade. Most of the "clones" I see have too much color, IMHO. I've had alot of Mirror Pond and don't get why everyone wants to make it so dark.

At any rate, it's finally coming around and is mighty tasty! The centennial in the dry hop should have been left out, as it is all Cascade in Mirror Pond. But now that it's been in the keg for a few weeks, the Centennial aroma is fading and it tastes more like I remember Mirror Pond. Time to get a bottle of the real stuff to compare.

Thanks for the reply.

I have found, now into my second batch, that a couple of minor changes might help make it a bit closer to MP.

First, I have found that something is needed to increase the maltiness just a bit, but not the darkness nor the sweetness. I find it a bit unbalanced with all of the straight-up Cascade. A touch of aromatic malt?

Second, dry-hopping with about 1/2 oz. of Cascade for a 5 gal batch really rounds things out.

Just a few observations. Let me know how your progress goes; will do the same.

Cheers.

I just did one with all MO as a base. It's bubbling now.
AM

Here is the recipe I used:

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 7.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.00 lb Pale Malt(GW Northwest) (3.0 SRM) Grain 93.02 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.65 %
0.25 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.33 %
0.75 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (70 min) Hops 26.0 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.70 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (15 min) Hops 8.3 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.70 %] (15 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.70 %] (5 min) Hops 1.7 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.70 %] (1 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops -
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs Safale US-05 (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 10.75 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
65 min Step Add 16.13 qt of water at 161.7 F 151.0 F


Notes:
------
1.052(one source), 40IBU, and 5% ABV according to Deschutes. No activity after 1 day, so put in US-05. Probably didn't aerate enough. Dry hopped with 1 oz centennial pellets and 1 oz cascade pellets. 4 weeks total in primary, then clarified with gelatin.
-----------------------------------

This attenuated slightly too much due to adding US-05 and possibly the mash temperature. I actually hit 1.053 and went down to 1.010. It may still be fairly close in flavor, however, due to the "english like" GW Pale Ale Malt. The MO experiment would be a different way. I think they just use US 2-row for base, though, so the amount of crystal, mash temp, and yeast is probably where the maltiness comes from.

I like a good aroma, so the 2 oz of dry hops is more than Mirror pond has. I'd say 1 oz of Cascades only is probably appropriate.

Next week I'll get a bottle of Mirror pond and do a side by side.


Rich

RichBenn, I think you are correct in using the GW Northwest pale malt. From what I have heard Deschutes uses a northwest malt with about a 3l color range.

I did a taste comparison with Mirror Pond with my recipe. Here are my wife and my comments:

Aroma -- I double dry hopped and the aroma is so powerfull, you can hardly smell anything in the Mirror Pond in comparison.
Appearance -- alot more lacing and complete head in mine (in comparison); carb levels approximately the same. but mine was kegged; mirror pond was not. Mirror Pond was darker, more copper (so there isn't enough crystal in mine).
Flavor -- somewhat similar. Mine is somewhat smoother on the front end (more mouthfeel), and more late bitterness on the back of the tonque. The mirror pond showed more malt(crystal) flavor, probably due to more crystal and a different yeast. Yeast differences were detectable.
Mouthfeel - see above.

So my overall changes to my recipe, not the O.P., who is closer, I'd guess, would be to skip the Cara-pils, up the crystal 60, and go with all english ale yeast(which Mirror Pond uses and was my original intent). Oh, and all Cascades. The centennial I put in and the double dry hop changes the character it a bit. I actually prefer mine a bit more than the Mirror Pond, but that may be due to the mouthfeel and hops. I'll probably brew again with the changes just to see how close it is.

Rich