Hoping to take the beer to that "next step"

This is a loaded post with plenty of mini questions. My primary fermenter is my dad's from when he brewed in the 70s. Is it about time to buy a new one? I have been noticing a small off flavor in my beers. Nothing too terrible, but I can notice it. Maybe it's extract twang or maybe there are tiny scratches from sitting around 30 years that are collecting bacteria.

I've been thinking about taking the next step and purchasing a conditioning container (not sure yet if I'll go with a plastic or glass). I currently have a witbier fermenting away (one week as of today). I was reading some older threads (like this one) and there was the suggestion that wheat beers don't need a secondary and are usually enjoyed more "green". So maybe I'll hold off on picking up the secondary for my next brew (probably some sort of stout).

I don't really have the money/resources to move to all-grain brewing yet, so I might look into partial mash (I'll need to do a lot more research to figure all of this out). Anyway, I guess I'm just rambling, but my beers are good and drinkable but I'd really like to take them to the next step. Right now I've done some extract kits with specialty grains and hops, but that's about as daring as I've gotten.

So my ideas are: 1 - try a new fermenter, 2 - get a secondary, 3 - take a step towards pm.

-Josh

yikes, 1970s?
yes get a new one, lots of people swear by the brand "better bottle" on here, so check those out.

most likely the flavor is extract twang, try getting fresher extract, from online catalogs instead, and even better, switch to using all dry malt extract (refered on here as DME), it has no noticable twang that liquid extract gets from the cans it sits in.

yea my wheat beers are never secondaried, nice and fast, but a stout may benefit from some bulk conditioning in a secondary for at least 3 or 4 weeeks.

go all grain, its awesome, read this www.howtobrew.com, its loaded with good stuff.

Could you describe the off-flavor? Without knowing more, it's hard to diagnose.

If you're using liquid extract, the off flavor is probably so-called extract twang. If you're using dried malt extract, I would highly doubt extract twang is the issue. It's more expensive, but I'd definitely switch to DME exclusively if you're extract brewing.

If it's estery/fruity, you may be fermenting too warm or may be pitching too few yeast cells. Cooling your carboy and/or making a starter (if using liquid yeast) can reduce those off-flavors.

Is your primary a plastic pail or a glass carboy? If a pail, then chuck the dang thing. If it's a glass carboy and it appears to be free of scratches, you're probably good. You'll eventually want glass fermenters anyway because they keep the oxygen out. A lot of people here are advocates of the better bottle (high-tech plastic carboy), which I'd recommend.

Are your equipment (especially hoses) cleaned thoroughly between uses? If you rack your beer into a bottling bucket, that could introduce contamination. That's more probable if you used to make beer that didn't have off flavors but has developed them in the last several batches. I'd also want to know what santizer you're using to see if that could be the issue.

Switching to PM brewing will be an improvement over extract in general, but it sounds like there might be an underlying brewing problem going on that switching to PM/all grain brewing may or may not solve.

Yeah - I guess "off flavor" isn't a good description at all. I would say the off flavor is a combination of fruity and yeasty (if that combination is possible). I've never had homebrew other than what I've made on my own, so I suppose I'm getting used to the flavor of living beer. The fermenter sits in my basement. My house is usually around 76 degrees, and the basement (it's a home from 1906, so its not finished and is barely enough room to stand up in) is probably a few degrees cooler.

The primary is a plastic container. It looks just like the containers they sell grain in at the LHBS, (short and fat) but it has a hole in the top for the airlock. I guess after 30+ years it's time to buy a new one.

I use 1-step to clean everything with, and then I have some sort of iodine like product that I mix with water and apply with a spray gun. I forget the exact name of the product, but on first application it appears yellow. I do use a bottling bucket (this one was bought in 2008), and the hoses were bought brand new about 2 months ago.

I used liquid extract for an Irish Stout I made, DME for an American Pale Ale, and liquid again for the witbier that is currently fermenting. The Irish Stout used dry yeast, and the APA and Wit used liquid smack packs.

I am listing these sequential to what I think is importance in your situation.

1. If you don't already monitor temperature, buy a thermometer and keep your fermenting beer at proper temps during fermentation. This includes keeping the temps as stable as possible as well as nailing the right temp.

1. wowsers! get a new fermenter! i'm assuming your using a plastic bucket for your primary. I wouldn't toss that sucker though. that's really cool you have a 30 yr old active fermenter. im sure you have some wild beasts in there but if you already enjoy the brew go a couple test runs without that fermenter and try to pinpoint certain things you enjoy that are different from the two. which kind of new fermenter will depend on a couple things...

2. You were thinking about a second fermenter for conditioning. I would worry about the primary first, but in reality you can take care of both with one. I would say get a 6.5 gal glass carboy. You can primary ferment a 5.5 gal batch no problem, and conditioning for a couple weeks in the same carboy is no problem at all (<--if you want to debate this just object and don't hijack the thread please) I switched awhile back to using one carboy for primary fermenting and conditioning... i'll never go back! The only time this is not acceptable is for long conditioning and storage.

3. Switch to late addition extract boils. In the beginning of the boil add only the amount of extract needed to bring the gravity roughly what your OG will be for that batch of beer. Then add the rest at the end of the boil to sanitize. Read up on Late Extract Boils and ask questions if you have any. (If you can't afford a new carboy yet move this to #2!!)

4. Read up on all-grain and partial mashing. Once you pickup the concepts give a partial mash a shot with either a kitchen strainer or a grain/hop bag. It's a quick and cheap way to learn processes and work out kinks befor laying down the dough!

5. This one is more of a suggestion to help the "I don't really have the money/resources to move to all-grain brewing yet" part. Pay yourself first. You pay for beer elsewhere, so pay the brewer of your beer. dump a buck or a even a couple cents each time you drink a beer into a bucket. Over time you'll have enough to build up that nice all grain setup you've dreamt about!!!

BREW ON!

Sounds to me the "Off Flavors" are from a high ester production and slow flocculation which can all be reduced or controlled through temperature. Sometimes that can be as simple as a tub of water, a tee shirt, and a desk fan.

The only reason why a 38 year old plastic container wont last another 38 years would be poor care, namely scratches. Those could be found by feeling the container walss or by wiping the wall with that iodine sanitizer (iodophor). Non dilute, it should collect in any scratches and make them very visible but will also stain the plastic to some degree. If you have scratches, get yourself a bucket with a gasketed lid ~$10 at a LHBS and possibly less at a building supply (if you can get a gasketed lid, they are nice but not entirely necessary)

Sounds to me like you are using a closet bin (clear plastic and rectangular, big but shallow) and that isn't entirely wrong (more surface area for the yeast and possibly less osmotic pressure on the flocculated yeast) but it's not the "norm".

Since the other questions are being answered, i'll simply say: make sure you read www.howtobrew.com or just buy the complete book. excellent brewing resource, and will help you PM or AG brew.

PM isn't any different than AG brewing, except you only get part of your fermentables from grain...the rest comes from extract. The beer is generally better if you do everything right, and you can make up for bad efficiency with more extract. With AG you're just stuck with the lower gravity.

if you can PM successfully (its not hard) then AG is just a little larger scale, and the equipment to do it ($40 turkey fryer, $50 cooler and some plumbing parts, and $50 for a wort chiller. and then some kind of large brew kettle)

Thanks for all of the help and advice. I think I need to focus more on fermentation temperature control. After I pitch the yeast and seal up the fermenter I usually just sit it in the basement and check once a day on the bubbling. I need to pay better attention to temperatures down there.