Another Two Hearted clone question

I'd like to try a Two Hearted clone, SWMBO calls it Ugly Fish Head Beer. After doing some searches, the extract recipes I've found are calling for either Munich, Maris Otter or Vienna. Don't these grains need to be mashed? So I'm thinking I would at least need to do a PM using these. Am I wrong?
I put an AG recipe into BeerSmith and did a conversion to PM.

5.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract
2.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
1.75 lb Vienna Malt
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt

1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (60 min)
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (30 min)
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 9 days)
0.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 9 days)
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001)

Does this look like it might work?

For a PM you can only have up to 4 lbs of grains while mashing. The rest of the OG has to be DME. I am not sure how to convert it, all I have is the AG version too. Maybe someone else can help out.

aryiman said:

For a PM you can only have up to 4 lbs of grains while mashing. The rest of the OG has to be DME.

Click to expand...

Huh? I'm not sure where that figure came from. You can have a PM with 50 pounds of grain, if you want to. Now, I know that's silly, but my point is that you can mash whatever quantities of grains you can. If you can fit 8 pounds in your MLT, you can mash 8 pounds. You will want to make sure that you have enough diastastic power (usually through basemalts) to convert the starches, though. Since in this recipe, you do, that's not a concern at all. If you were using lots of oats and corn and such, then you need to have at least the same amount of basemalt to ensure conversion.

mstev50 said:

I'd like to try a Two Hearted clone, SWMBO calls it Ugly Fish Head Beer. After doing some searches, the extract recipes I've found are calling for either Munich, Maris Otter or Vienna. Don't these grains need to be mashed? So I'm thinking I would at least need to do a PM using these. Am I wrong?
I put an AG recipe into BeerSmith and did a conversion to PM.

5.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract
2.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
1.75 lb Vienna Malt
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt

1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (60 min)
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (30 min)
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 9 days)
0.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 9 days)
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001)

Does this look like it might work?

Click to expand...

Since I drink, and it's hard to figure this out, could you post the BSM file, so I can just zip it open and read it and see the IBUs and the IBU/SG ratio? All you do is export it, and then attach it into a post. For what it's worth, Two Hearted (the "real" one) is all centennial, but I like cascades alot, and wouldn't not use them based on that.

I did this a while back when I was still doing extract brewing. I think it was my best brew up to that point, but I bottled mostly in .5l swingtops I got off of craigslist. Should have replaced the muth@funk!n gaskets... None of them carbed. The 6 or so i put in 12ozers were delicious.

Two Hearted Ale clone
Brew Type: Extract Date: 5/7/2003
Style: American IPA Brewer: Me
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 6.34 gal Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.00 lb Amber Dry Extract (12.5 SRM) Dry Extract 74.6 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.3 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.3 %
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 5.3 %
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 49.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00%] (15 min) Hops 16.2 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (5 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days)
0.88 lb Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 9.4 %

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.071 SG (1.056-1.075 SG)
Measured Original Gravity: 1.076 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018 SG (1.010-1.018 SG)
Measured Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Color: 11.9 SRM (6.0-15.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 68.5 IBU (40.0-65.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 5.0 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 6.9 % (5.5-7.5 %)
Actual Alcohol by Volume: 7.8 %
Actual Calories: 346 cal/pint

I brewed Northern Brewer's Two-Hearted clone kit, and it's really close to the real thing. You could check out the ingredients in the kit on their website.

Thanks Yooper. I thought it was all Centennial too, but read somewhere that somebody at Bell's said they used Cascade as well.

View attachment TwoHeartedPM.bsm

I actually just did the NB kit, I am glad you say it is a pretty close approximation to the original. It is one of my favorite commercial brews.

Its only 3 days in the fermenter though, so its a couple months from being ready (2 ready, 3 good). If I remember, I will post back my thoughts. My original clone kit (from Austin I think), had Munich and Carapils (up 2 for recipe). I will be interested to see how they compare, I have 8 bottles of the extract kit (carb is weak) left. It was my favorite from my extract batches, even uncarbed.

I've done about 3 batches of THA and only used Centennial hops getting my IBUs to about 65-70. I also have a rather simple AG recipe, involving about 10 pounds of 2-row, and then 3 pounds of a vienna/carapils mix.

Your extract should get close. The AHS kit is pretty close, btw.

YooperBrew said:

Huh? I'm not sure where that figure came from. You can have a PM with 50 pounds of grain, if you want to. Now, I know that's silly, but my point is that you can mash whatever quantities of grains you can. If you can fit 8 pounds in your MLT, you can mash 8 pounds. You will want to make sure that you have enough diastastic power (usually through basemalts) to convert the starches, though. Since in this recipe, you do, that's not a concern at all. If you were using lots of oats and corn and such, then you need to have at least the same amount of basemalt to ensure conversion.

Click to expand...

I remember reading on a website before I decided to go AG about the PM process and I read that you could only fit in 4 lbs for a PM and then you use DME to make up the rest of the OG calculations.

All Grain Recipe - Bells Two Hearted IPA ::: 1.064/1.012 (5.5 Gal)
Grain Bill (75% Efficiency assumed)
10 lbs. - 2 Row Pale Malt
2 lb. - Vienna Malt
1/2 lb. - Caramel/Crystal Malt (15L)
1/2 lb. - CaraPils

Hop Schedule (47 IBU)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (60 min.)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (45 min.)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (30 min.)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (15 min.)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (flameout)
1 oz. - Centennial (Dry Hop)
*optional*
If you like a bit more hop, use 1/2 oz of Centennial as a First Wort Hop addition

Yeast
Wyeast American Ale II Yeast (#1272) - 1800 ml starter

Mash/Sparge/Boil
Mash at 153° for 60 min.
Sparge as usual
Cool and ferment at 65° to 68°

mstev50 said:

Thanks Yooper. I thought it was all Centennial too, but read somewhere that somebody at Bell's said they used Cascade as well.

Click to expand...

It looks like your Beersmith recipe is right where you want it to be as far as IBUs go. I might be tempted to use only centennial, like was mentioned earlier, but either way would be good. I would also consider moving some of the 60 minute hops to a bit later in the boil- maybe at 15 minutes.

aryiman said:

I remember reading on a website before I decided to go AG about the PM process and I read that you could only fit in 4 lbs for a PM and then you use DME to make up the rest of the OG calculations.

Click to expand...

Well, if someone has a mlt that only holds 4 pounds, that could be true. You can use 10 pounds of grain, though, and use less DME, if you have room for it in your MLT and room for the runnings in your boil kettle. If you're doing a partial boil, it'd be hard to mash more than 6 pounds of grain, because the runnings alone might be near 3 gallons. But you can always mash however much grain you want to and just bring up the OG with DME as desired.

Thanks a bunch, Yoop. Yeah, I'll probably go all Centennial and save my Cascades for my next batch