Off taste in many of my homebrews

I've been brewing for about 2 years now and have made about 6 different beers. I've noticed in several of my beers, the same undertone of an off flavor. The beer still tastes good, but it's the same flavor from beer to beer. I've made an IPA which was had only the faintest of this taste. Then a farmhouse ale and a dunkelweiss beer, neither of which had this flavor, or at least the Belgian yeast overcame it. It's the first holiday style ale, the brown ale and now the Porter (modeled after Deschutes Black Butte porter) and it has that darned taste! Here are the things I think that could cause this taste:

1. temperature fluctuations in brewing - but stays in the 65-75 degree range
2. malt extract - i've heard people say this can cause beers to taste the same
3. yeast - but i use high quality yeast and I keep it refrigerated
4. dead yeast - but i use a secondary fermenter and I separate the wort from the sludge

Does anyone know what I'm talking about and have any ideas on how to get this flavor from coming back in most of my amberish ales?

Please help!

Thanks,

Rog-o-matic

Can you describe the taste?

Number 1 jumps out at me right away. If that's the beer temperature, 75 is too high. If that's ambient temperature, it's probably WAY too high. One of the effects of a too-high fermentation temperature are off-flavors. These can make even very different yeast strains and ingredients have a similar fruity flavor or even "band-aid" flavor.

What about your water? Have you used tap water for all of them? Chlorine or chloramines in the brewing water can cause a "sameness" in taste.

If you are brewing extract, are you getting fresh from a local home brew shop?

all of my early beers tasted really similiar. I was doing kits that sat on a shelf in the store. I figure the malt was all old. I think this is why extract gets a bad name. I have a buddy in denver who brews extract that kicks butt. He gets all his in bulk from a place that goes thorugh it fast.

Is the liquid 75 is hot for most yeast, and if that is the air temp, your wort can be fermenting 5 to 10 degrees warmer.

I would check quality of ingredients (try a kit from brewmaster's warehouse or austin home brew) and CONTROL THAT FERMENT TEMP. Put the bucket in a rubbermaid tub with water in it and use frozen bottles of water to keep it even.

And yoop answered above me, she has pictures of how she controls temps, great simple system.

I agree with Yooper. The temperature of your fermenting beer can be 4-8 degrees higher than the ambient temperature. If a beer calls for a fermentation temperature of 68, I usually set my thermostat in my cooler to 62-63F.

I would say the temp is to high and for those beers I would be making at least a 2L starter to make sure I had plenty of good healthy yeast. Stressed yeast can cause poor fermentation and off flavors

I might add that if you are making partial boil extract batches you may be gettign some carmalization and concentration from the smal boil volumes. If you can bump your boil size up or go full boil that may help.

I also echo the temp concerns, not only is the 70's too high that range is to significant. During fermentation you want it to stay in a slight range of flucuation. It is bad for the yeast to flucuate in an uncontrolled manor more than a couple degrees. They will stress and create off flavors.

Let me guess you are using Star San or Iodophor....

Forrest

Austinhomebrew said:

Let me guess you are using Star San or Iodophor....

Forrest

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Would this cause an off flavor if used in the recommended concentations?

kpr121 said:

Would this cause an off flavor if used in the recommended concentations?

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That is the key. A lot of people think that if a little sanitizer is good then more is even better. People eyeball iodophor or add it until it has a certain color. There are no rinse dilutions but a lot of the off flavors people have is because of these sanitizers. That and old extract from a can.

I reccomend using a sanitizer that will not leave an aftertaste such as one step or cleanitizer. Or really make sure that you have a no rinse dilution. Any sanitizer that will leave a taste I usually hit it with fresh water just in case.

Forrest

My first porter and brown had an off taste because I was fermenting at 70-74 ambient. I could taste it in my pale ale also but not as bad... Once I got my temperature under control it went away.

I have had the same problem in about 3 brews I have done. I have to believe it is because of the fermentation temperatures. That is the only thing that i could guess that it would be. temps were 73+. (my AC went out in august when one was fermenting.) I am now controlling my temps better.

Thanks All. The taste is slightly bitter, slightly tangy, but not at all sour. It's just slightly off. Someone mentioned band-aid which isn't quite right, but yes, maybe just a bit like band-aid.

I'm pretty careful about fully rinsing even the no rinse sanitizer, so I'm thinking that can't be it. I get all my ingredients from Hop To It, a local home brew shop that has high quality ingredients and likely goes through their malt extract pretty quickly. It must be the temperature then. Ambient temp varies with the season, but my house in the fall/ winter is probably around 65-70. The temp of the beer wort (based on the thermometer on the bucket and carboy) is also in that range. Can you make some suggestions about the best way to keep the temperature constant over two weeks of fermenting?

Put it in a rubbermaid tub with water and add in a frozen water bottle or two every 8 hours or so. works like a charm. Just stick a thermometer in the water and monitor the temp.

Downhillfromhere said:

Put it in a rubbermaid tub with water and add in a frozen water bottle or two every 8 hours or so. works like a charm. Just stick a thermometer in the water and monitor the temp.

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You do this for two weeks?

I usually do it for the first 3 to 4 days after active ferment starts. That is when the yeast is really kicking out the heat.

I leave my brews in primary for 3 to 4 weeks, so temp control is only at the begining. I have 2 so of fermentation chillers (box made out of pink board, house thermostat and a computer fan, blows air over frozen bottles of water)

Once that busy part of the ferment is done, I let the beer go to ambient for the remainder.

I will also reinforce what one person contributed above: full volume boils. While it does not seem to be what you are experiencing here, it can improve overall quality. I remember my first full volume brew: I rediscovered flavor and aroma of hops!

YOOPER DOES HERS IN A COOLER:

Bandaid/burnt rubber flavors are attributable to one thing and that is chlorine compounds. Have you been using bleach for cleaning or using unfiltered tap water in your brewing process?

Also, someone mentioned using One Step as a no rinse sanitizer, keep in mind that One Step is not recognised by the FDA or NSF as an approved no rinse sanitizer. Not saying it doesn't work, but why take the chance.

bowiefan said:

Bandaid/burnt rubber flavors are attributable to one thing and that is chlorine compounds. Have you been using bleach for cleaning or using unfiltered tap water in your brewing process?

Also, someone mentioned using One Step as a no rinse sanitizer, keep in mind that One Step is not recognised by the FDA or NSF as an approved no rinse sanitizer. Not saying it doesn't work, but why take the chance.

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I use water from a carbon filter built into a small faucet on my sink. Typically, Boulder water has a neutral taste, but maybe I should change the filter more often.

I've been using Star San no-rinse on the recommendation of the guys at Hop To It and I do rinse thoroughly. The off taste definitely is not bacterial contamination. Should I consider a different sanitizer?

chefmike said:

I usually do it for the first 3 to 4 days after active ferment starts. That is when the yeast is really kicking out the heat.

I leave my brews in primary for 3 to 4 weeks, so temp control is only at the begining. I have 2 so of fermentation chillers (box made out of pink board, house thermostat and a computer fan, blows air over frozen bottles of water)

Once that busy part of the ferment is done, I let the beer go to ambient for the remainder.

I will also reinforce what one person contributed above: full volume boils. While it does not seem to be what you are experiencing here, it can improve overall quality. I remember my first full volume brew: I rediscovered flavor and aroma of hops!

YOOPER DOES HERS IN A COOLER:

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Wow, this looks/ sounds like quite a process. I thought that one should move from primary to secondary fermentation as soon after active fermentation is complete as possible so as to separate the wort from the dead yeast cells which can cause off flavors. Is this not the case? Is it longer the better? Or just better to go for 3-4 vs. 1-2? With regard to temp, I always speed the cooling from the wort to 70 degrees using an ice bath, but I don't do anything thereafter. It sounds like the most important time for maintaining temp is the first 3 or 4 days.

bowiefan said:

Bandaid/burnt rubber flavors are attributable to one thing and that is chlorine compounds. Have you been using bleach for cleaning or using unfiltered tap water in your brewing process?

Also, someone mentioned using One Step as a no rinse sanitizer, keep in mind that One Step is not recognised by the FDA or NSF as an approved no rinse sanitizer. Not saying it doesn't work, but why take the chance.

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It is a sanitizer. It works well as a sanitizer.

rogomatic said:

I use water from a carbon filter built into a small faucet on my sink. Typically, Boulder water has a neutral taste, but maybe I should change the filter more often.

I've been using Star San no-rinse on the recommendation of the guys at Hop To It and I do rinse thoroughly. The off taste definitely is not bacterial contamination. Should I consider a different sanitizer?

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Get a better water filter! Do a test batch with bottled water.

No-rinse, means exactly what it says. Mixed up in the right proportions StarSan imparts zero detectable off flavors. Don't rinse, you are defeating it.

rogomatic said:

You do this for two weeks?

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I generally monitor the temp pretty closely for about the 1st 5 days keeping around 65. It's a lot easier if you have it in a cool area of your house, in CO that shouldn't be an issue Here in SoCal it can be though! Just drop a frozen 1L bottle in when you leave for work in the morning or 2 20oz bottles, when you get home from work, and when you go to bed, it's that simple. I'll let the temp start rising up when the airlock stops showing activity and then hold it at 68-70 for another 5 days or so to let the yeast clean up. Usually 10 days is solid for a primary in my experience. It works!

samc said:

Get a better water filter! Do a test batch with bottled water.

No-rinse, means exactly what it says. Mixed up in the right proportions StarSan imparts zero detectable off flavors. Don't rinse, you are defeating it.

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The small britta/pur tupe filters are only good for about 200 gallons and are only able to get the level of effectiveness you need at flow rates under ~1 gallon per minute and temps under 85*F. Switch up to a carbon block filter in 10"x4" housing.
Also, the rinsing is going to introduce some chlorine or chloramine depending on what your municipality or utility provider use. Star san is a great product when used as directed, search "don't fear the foam".

Austinhomebrew said:

It is a sanitizer.

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I don't think thats true at all. Last time I looked their packaging called it a no-rinse cleanser. Has something changed?

JoMarky said:

I don't think thats true at all. Last time I looked their packaging called it a no-rinse cleanser. Has something changed?

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No. But I was a winemaker for years, and always used it as a "one step" cleaner/sanitizer. It works, but it doesn't have the FDA or whatever "grade" as a sanitizer which costs the company money to obtain. It works, and it works well. I still use star-san most of the time, but One-step does work as a sanitizer.

Yooper - do you have photos of your cooling setup?

Yooper said:

No. But I was a winemaker for years, and always used it as a "one step" cleaner/sanitizer. It works, but it doesn't have the FDA or whatever "grade" as a sanitizer which costs the company money to obtain. It works, and it works well. I still use star-san most of the time, but One-step does work as a sanitizer.

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Maybe a bit off-topic from the original post, but I would think the FDA won't approve this because you cannot clean and sanitize in the same step. This is the reason you have separate stations for this in restaurants. Generally, you should clean with an alkaline cleaner, rinse, and sanitize with an acid. If you have a lot of soils and bacteria that needs cleaned, this could deactivate the sanitizer. By nature cleaning and sanitizing is a two-step process. Perhaps you can sanitize with One-step, but you shouldn't try to clean and sanitize in the same step with it.

I don't fear the foam. I embrace it! I put about 2 gallons of starsan (at the PROPER concentration) into my carboy, then I shake the crap out of it. After the starsan has touched everything, I pour it out in the "glug glug glug" fashion. This leaves about half a carboy worth of foam, which I roll around a bit to try to coat all surfaces. Then I rack right on top of that. No off flavors!

FWIW/YMMV/etc - you don't NEED the foam, you just need everything wet with sanitizer for 90 seconds. If possible I make new batches of Starsan in an about-to-be-used carboy because it makes no foam. Then I can gently pour it out (avoiding any glug-glugging) and there is zero foam left.

That pic of Yoopers carboy/tub is the lightest/clearest batch of homebrew I've ever seen.

ultravista said:

Yooper - do you have photos of your cooling setup?

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Nothing fancy-


I took of the original lid, which was hollow anyway, and made a new lid out of three or four layers of foam insulation. I kept the original lid (it just snaps back on) so I still have a cooler.

In the summer, or for lagering, I use a water bath an chill the water bath with frozen water bottles that I change out as needed. In the winter, I add an aquarium heater to the water bath to keep the temperature UP in my 45 degree basement, if I'm making an ale.

rogomatic said:

Thanks All. The taste is slightly bitter, slightly tangy, but not at all sour. It's just slightly off. Someone mentioned band-aid which isn't quite right, but yes, maybe just a bit like band-aid.

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I had a similar issue after moving, it was especially pronounced in lighter beers. I started using a britta filter and that solved the problem (I now have an under the sink unit)

Yooper - what is your process for keeping the Ale temps down?

I live in Las Vegas, it gets hottern than hell here in the summer. The house is usually around 79. What are your suggestions for keeping the carboy cool for ale fermentation? Do you leave the fermenter in the cooler for the entire ferment and rest, just the ferment cycle (few days), or?

In a cooler, a single frozen bottle of water keeps the temps in check?

ultravista said:

Yooper - what is your process for keeping the Ale temps down?

I live in Las Vegas, it gets hottern than hell here in the summer. The house is usually around 79. What are your suggestions for keeping the carboy cool for ale fermentation? Do you leave the fermenter in the cooler for the entire ferment and rest, just the ferment cycle (few days), or?

In a cooler, a single frozen bottle of water keeps the temps in check?

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No, you may need several frozen bottles at a time. I have some old LME containers, with nice lids, that are sort of like thin coffee cans. I freeze water in those, and in 2 quart milk jugs, and cycle them in and out. I have quite an assortment, from 1L soda bottles to those big LME containers. If you float a thermometer in the water bath, you can keep an eye on temperature pretty well. And even if the ice melts, it takes a LONG time for 10 gallons of liquid (5 or so in the water bath, I'd guess) and 5 gallons in the fermenter to change temperature, so it holds the temps pretty stable for a long time.

I control the fermentation temperature throughout the whole process. I know some people let the temperature rise at the end, but I don't, beyond maybe a couple of degrees. When I'm finished, I keg or bottle the beer.

I do not secondary, the beer spends three to four weeks in the primary for fermentation and conditioning. With that being said, you would keep the carboy cool for the entire duration?

How long do you typically leave your brew in the primary before bottling / kegging?

ultravista said:

I do not secondary, the beer spends three to four weeks in the primary for fermentation and conditioning. With that being said, you would keep the carboy cool for the entire duration?

How long do you typically leave your brew in the primary before bottling / kegging?

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About three weeks in the fermenter before kegging or bottling.