Primary fermentation

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Hose

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Would leaving the wort in the primary fermentor for 12 days be too long? Noticeable bubbling in the fermentation lock did not begin for 72 hours. Today is day 6, still a lot of bubbles coming through the lock. Type beer is an Irish Stout.
 
There's been a shift in belief over the past few years, now most of us leave our beers in primary for a month rather than rack to a secondary, and find our beers are better for being on the yeast that time. And clearer.

Fermenting the beer is just a part of what the yeast do. If you leave the beer alone, they will go back and clean up the byproducts of fermentation that often lead to off flavors. That's why many brewers skip secondary and leave our beers alone in primary for a month. It leaves plenty of time for the yeast to ferment, clean up after themselves and then fall out, leaving our beers crystal clear, with a tight yeast cake.

This is the latest recommendation, it is the same one many of us have been giving for several years on here.

John Palmer said:
Tom from Michigan asks:
I have a few questions about secondary fermentations. I've read both pros and cons for 2nd fermentations and it is driving me crazy what to do. One, are they necessary for lower Gravity beers?
Two, what is the dividing line between low gravity and high gravity beers? Is it 1.060 and higher?
Three, I have an American Brown Ale in the primary right now, a SG of 1.058, Should I secondary ferment this or not?
Your advice is appreciated, thanks for all you do!

Allen from New York asks:

John, please talk about why or why not you would NOT use a secondary fermenter (bright tank?) and why or why not a primary only fermentation is a good idea. In other words, give some clarification or reason why primary only is fine, versus the old theory of primary then secondary normal gravity ale fermentations.

Palmer answers:

These are good questions – When and why would you need to use a secondary fermenter? First some background – I used to recommend racking a beer to a secondary fermenter. My recommendation was based on the premise that (20 years ago) larger (higher gravity) beers took longer to ferment completely, and that getting the beer off the yeast reduced the risk of yeast autolysis (ie., meaty or rubbery off-flavors) and it allowed more time for flocculation and clarification, reducing the amount of yeast and trub carryover to the bottle. Twenty years ago, a homebrewed beer typically had better flavor, or perhaps less risk of off-flavors, if it was racked off the trub and clarified before bottling. Today that is not the case.

The risk inherent to any beer transfer, whether it is fermenter-to-fermenter or fermenter-to-bottles, is oxidation and staling. Any oxygen exposure after fermentation will lead to staling, and the more exposure, and the warmer the storage temperature, the faster the beer will go stale.

Racking to a secondary fermenter used to be recommended because staling was simply a fact of life – like death and taxes. But the risk of autolysis was real and worth avoiding – like cholera. In other words, you know you are going to die eventually, but death by cholera is worth avoiding.

But then modern medicine appeared, or in our case, better yeast and better yeast-handling information. Suddenly, death by autolysis is rare for a beer because of two factors: the freshness and health of the yeast being pitched has drastically improved, and proper pitching rates are better understood. The yeast no longer drop dead and burst like Mr. Creosote from Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life when fermentation is complete – they are able to hibernate and wait for the next fermentation to come around. The beer has time to clarify in the primary fermenter without generating off-flavors. With autolysis no longer a concern, staling becomes the main problem. The shelf life of a beer can be greatly enhanced by avoiding oxygen exposure and storing the beer cold (after it has had time to carbonate).

Therefore I, and Jamil and White Labs and Wyeast Labs, do not recommend racking to a secondary fermenter for ANY ale, except when conducting an actual second fermentation, such as adding fruit or souring. Racking to prevent autolysis is not necessary, and therefore the risk of oxidation is completely avoidable. Even lagers do not require racking to a second fermenter before lagering. With the right pitching rate, using fresh healthy yeast, and proper aeration of the wort prior to pitching, the fermentation of the beer will be complete within 3-8 days (bigger = longer). This time period includes the secondary or conditioning phase of fermentation when the yeast clean up acetaldehyde and diacetyl. The real purpose of lagering a beer is to use the colder temperatures to encourage the yeast to flocculate and promote the precipitation and sedimentation of microparticles and haze.

So, the new rule of thumb: don’t rack a beer to a secondary, ever, unless you are going to conduct a secondary fermentation.

THIS is where the latest discussion and all your questions answered.
We have multiple threads about this all over the place, like this one,so we really don't need to go over it again, all the info you need is here;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/

We basically proved that old theory wrong on here 5 years ago, and now the rest fo the brewing community is catching up. Though a lot of old dogs don't tend to follow the latest news, and perpetuate the old stuff.

The autolysis from prolong yeast contact has fallen by the wayside, in fact yeast contact is now seen as a good thing.

All my beers sit a minimum of 1 month in the primary. And I recently bottled a beer that sat in primary for 5.5 months with no ill effects.....

You'll find that more and more recipes these days do not advocate moving to a secondary at all, but mention primary for a month, which is starting to reflect the shift in brewing culture that has occurred in the last 4 years, MOSTLY because of many of us on here, skipping secondary, opting for longer primaries, and writing about it. Recipes in BYO have begun stating that in their magazine. I remember the "scandal" it caused i the letters to the editor's section a month later, it was just like how it was here when we began discussing it, except a lot more civil than it was here. But after the Byo/Basic brewing experiment, they started reflecting it in their recipes.

:mug:
 
Revvy, thanks for the excellent information !
 
Hi Revvy,
One follow up question that I couldn't seem to find in your other posts, you keep in the primary for a month, then how long do you keep it in the bottles before drinking? Just wondering because you had replied to some of my postings earlier about primary vs secondary fermentation vessels and as a result we've decided to just use a primary (6.5 gallon bucket) and bottle from there using a dedicated bottling bucket.

Anyways, 3-4 weeks in primary, then how long in bottles before drinking? 2.5 weeks? Thanks!
 
Hi Revvy,
One follow up question that I couldn't seem to find in your other posts, you keep in the primary for a month, then how long do you keep it in the bottles before drinking? Just wondering because you had replied to some of my postings earlier about primary vs secondary fermentation vessels and as a result we've decided to just use a primary (6.5 gallon bucket) and bottle from there using a dedicated bottling bucket.

Anyways, 3-4 weeks in primary, then how long in bottles before drinking? 2.5 weeks? Thanks!

Follow up on that post, just read on "How to Brew" by John Palmer and saw to wait 2 weeks for carbonation.
 
Hi Revvy,
One follow up question that I couldn't seem to find in your other posts, you keep in the primary for a month, then how long do you keep it in the bottles before drinking? Just wondering because you had replied to some of my postings earlier about primary vs secondary fermentation vessels and as a result we've decided to just use a primary (6.5 gallon bucket) and bottle from there using a dedicated bottling bucket.

Anyways, 3-4 weeks in primary, then how long in bottles before drinking? 2.5 weeks? Thanks!

It's not in there, because how long and how you chose to condition your beer whether you don't, opt for a long primary or go for the old school way of using a secondary, really doesn't change how long a beer needs to carb. 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. Not how long you had the beer in a bucket or carboy.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience." ;)

It may alter how long a beer needs to bottle condition. You may find there's no green taste when they hit the carb level. Sometimes a beer may be carbed and still need a couple weeks for the flavors to come together. And long primarying may indeed limit that need. I've been long primarying for 5 years, and some beers taste ready as soon as they are carbed, some still have needed weeks or months to bottle condition...I think it really depends on the beer itself.

I've never really tracked it but I think probably the majority of them came out drinkable right when they were carbed. I think most of those that needed time to come together were more about being too much of something, like too oakey or too spicey and that needed to mellow a bit, rather than it being about the beer tasting green.

But in terms of how long the yeast are going to need to carb the beer, it's really about gravity and temp, rather than how much time the beer conditioned in a primary or a secondary.

:mug:
 
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