Old yeast date, now what?

Hey guys, I'm in a bit of a urgent need.

About 3 hours ago, I started a yeast starter for a weekend brew. I didn't think to look at the date before I left the shop today and only a few minutes ago did I realize I was sold a vial that has a best use by day of November 27. According to Brewers friend yeast pitch calculator, I'm pretty short on what I need.

I do have a few jars or canned wort I made for starters that I can pour in and bring this up this to a 1.5 or a 2 liter starter and have enough, but since I've had this on the stir plate going for a few hours, I'm not sure what that would do to the yeast. Could I sanitize the funnel and jar and pour me in a few more ounces? The canned wort is already at room temp and I would rather not have to deal with making a second step if I could avoid it. Below is the stuff copied from the pitch calculator if you can make it out.

I'll be brewing a Belgian White Ale. Probably in the neighborhood of 1.057 - 1.060 or so and using White Labs WLP400

Lot #1018062 that was manufactured on Test Date: 7/13/2015 8:12:12 AM

Thanks for taking a look,

Ken

Yeast Pitch Rate:
Units:

Sugar Scale:

Wort Gravity (OG): (1.xxx)
Wort Volume: Gallons
Target Pitch Rate:

(million cells / ml / degree plato)
Yeast Type:
Liquid Packs: (packs/vials)
Mfg Date: (yyyy/mm/dd)
Date yeast pack was made.
Viability: Yeast is 120 days old, the viability is estimated at 16%.



Cells Available:
16 billion cells
Pitch Rate As-Is:
0.05M cells / mL / °P
Target Pitch Rate Cells:
239 billion cells
Difference:
-223 billion cells

Needs starter (see below), or more yeast.

Part 2: Make a starter if required, supports up to 3 step-ups.
Yeast Starter - Up To 3 Step-Ups:
Starting Yeast Count: (Billion Cells)
Enter the number of cells you are starting with, or click the 'grab from above' button if you set up your yeast in the previous section.
Starter - Step 1:
Starter Size (L) Gravity (1.xxx) Growth Model and Aeration


DME Required:
3.6 oz, 102.7 g
Growth Rate:
1.4
Intial Cells Per Extract (B/g): 0.25
Ending Cell Count:
170 billion cells
Resulting Pitch Rate:
0.53M cells / mL / °P
Starter does not create enough yeast cells. Increase starter size, change aeration technique, or do another step.

On taking a look at the second starter I have going, it's a White Labs PurePitch that was MGF on Sept 1st. Looks like I'll be short on it too, for a 1.060 Irish Blonde

Crap sake, I can't win. Both of these are in a 2 liter flask, so if I can add to these all will be good.

Don't top your starter up - follow the instructions for decanting and building up your starter, here

Good luck

Make a starter and you will know really quickly if the yeast is going to work or if it really has dropped it's viability as much as the calculator claims.

Personally, I sorta think that the online calculators are pretty hard on the yeast viability, based on my minimal experience using yeast that has been in the back of my fridge for long enough that to be declared as effectively being dead.

Pretty lively stuff, for being declared dead by the calculator!

TeeJo

Don't get too crazy about pitch count. There's far too much of that on this website, and some of it is old wives tales... Although you will see some validity from time to time. This instance isn't one of those times.

A gravity of 60 is not to the point where worry sets in. The starters will help, but these yeasts are not old enough to pose a scare... Unless they weren't stored correctly. I've built starters from yeast twice as old, maybe more, with no issue.

It is a Belgian though, so a little underpitching may be a blessing. Depends what you're shooting for...



The Blonde will be just fine. Relax.

You made a starter and your og isn't that high... You'll be fine. Carry on with your starter as is.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. They both are bubbling away happily this morning.

Ken

bigken462 said:

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. They both are bubbling away happily this morning.

Ken

Click to expand...

Yeast wins again!

I meant to follow up this post the other day with a picture or two. When I decanted the wort out of the flask, there was easily double the yeast cake compared to the other one which was much, much newer.

I pitched that yeast in a 6 gallon carboy and I noticed a slight churn by the time it took me to finish the second batch. Now this could have been cold break just releasing oxygen bubbles from being aerated, but it did look like activity to me.

Make no mistake, within 3 more hours, there was a full blown orgy going by the yeasties like they just got a free pass on Vegas night strip. I dropped the temp in the chamber just a lil, but overall they both look happy.

Hope everyone had a good brew weekend.

Ken

I always recommend people to still use yeast past the "best by"date, as it is certainly still good. A simple starter is typically all that's needed to get the yeast back in shape and build up some new cells. At The Yeast Bay, we heavily discount vials that are past the "best by" date, and essentially you the customer are just getting a great deal in exchange for having to make a small starter.

Glad this worked out for you though. A testament to the hardy nature of yeast!

Thanks,

It's funny that the very one I thought would be the weakest churned the hardest. I brewed the Wit last Saturday and the krausen is just now beginning to fall. It was a 1.069 batch that had a bit more efficiency that I anticipated. Ironically the Irish Blond which was a 1.071 finished up with the bulk of it's activity mid week.

They are resting undisturbed in the chamber where I plan to leave them till at least next Saturday. I'll probably cold crash for a few days before bottling.

Have a Belgian Wit right now in which I used WLP400 that was a couple weeks beyond the BIUB date. It was a maniac in primary. And now in secondary on apricot, it's a whole new yeast.

bigken462 said:

I meant to follow up this post the other day with a picture or two. When I decanted the wort out of the flask, there was easily double the yeast cake compared to the other one which was much, much newer.

I pitched that yeast in a 6 gallon carboy and I noticed a slight churn by the time it took me to finish the second batch. Now this could have been cold break just releasing oxygen bubbles from being aerated, but it did look like activity to me.

Make no mistake, within 3 more hours, there was a full blown orgy going by the yeasties like they just got a free pass on Vegas night strip. I dropped the temp in the chamber just a lil, but overall they both look happy.

Hope everyone had a good brew weekend.

Ken

Click to expand...

This is late, but according to the Brew United starter/pitch rate calculator the viability of your yeast was about 39%. I think the BU calculator is more realistic in estimating viability.

I think that a lot of the yeast starter/pitch rate calculators assume you stored the yeast at room temperature. Yeast that is refrigerated degrade much more slowly as this research by WoodlandBrews. http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2012/12/refrigeration-effects-on-yeast-viability.html

Since there was a good response to this thread, I don't really see a need to start a new one.

I have a quick question about the Belgian Wit that was listed on post #1.

Both of these batches seemed to ferment out ok. I've had them in a chest freezer with the temp set on 68* which was a happy median for the two yeast that I used.

This Wit which I used WL WLP400 in seemed to churn a lil longer than typical and I have a nagging 1/4-1/2" layer of krausen that dosen't seem to be doing anything but sitting there. There is very little activity in the blowoff bottle. Maybe a bubble or two here and there, but over all, I believe this beer to be done.

It was a 1.069 batch brewed two weeks ago tomorrow. It's down to 1.016. According to BrewSmith I have almost 76% attenuation. According to WhiteLabs I should have 74-78% for this yeast so I'm pretty happy.

Normally I give all my beers two weeks primary and then cold crash for a few days before kegging or bottling. Most of the ones in the past, all the krausen falls out long before I cold crash. This one seems to linger. Is this a indication that fermentation is still on going?

Ordinarily I would not mind waiting another week, but I have a very impending move which I may have to be doing in next 2-3 weeks. (House inspection was two days ago) so I would like to try and get these two batches bottled and off my back in case this sale goes through. The last thing I want to fool with is having to bottle in the middle of a move.

Today is the first day I've taken a gravity reading since I brewed these two weeks ago. Would you guys suggest go ahead and cold crashing given the amount it has already reached, or seeing what it might have left to do? This is one of those times I wish I had a cpl extra kegs to use. It's already at 7% ABV, so I can't imagine it having much left to do.

Let me know if you need any further info and i'll go dig my notes out.


KT