how much different is extract and partal mash

I considering moveing up from extract to partal mash and more advanced stuff. How much of a differece in taste is there and how much am i looking at spending to make this upgrade?

Great question wes, I was wondering the same, but for a bit down the line.... Let the answers flow forth

PM doesn't necessarily cost anything extra in terms of equipment (although I'd recommend buying a cooler to use as a mash tun). As far as taste goes, it depends on your process. I have generally preferred my PM beers over my extract-only batches, but it's no night-and-day difference for many beer styles, especially when the grains make up less than half of the total fermentables.

I PM simply because I enjoy the process, it's a little cheaper, and it allows for more customization of the final product.

My PM setup (which I described here) cost me around $15 for a second plastic bucket.

I do notice a difference in quality (my PM mashes have a fresher and more subtle flavor) but this is pretty subtle. It's really only noticeable in very clean beers like if you brew a Kolsch or something.

PM brewing is also slightly cheaper, but again not by much.

For me the biggest advantage is that I have more control. When I mash, I can control fermentability so I can make my beer as dry or sweet as I like. I can also use many ingredients that are not available to a purely extract brewer.

If you're making something like an IPA that works well as extract plus steeping grains, you probably won't notice that big an improvement from a partial mash. But if you want to brew a wit, or an oatmeal stout, or a rye beer, or a dunkel, it's pretty much essential to mash so that you can use the right ingredients.

I think i made the move more for the learning experience than the flavor boost of cost benefits. It's a bit cheaper to buy base malt than it is extract, and i've found less 'twang' since i've reduced the amount of extract, but more important is the understanding i've gained on my way to all grain.

I prefer a partial mash as much for the process as the taste. I've noticed that I enjoy my partial mash brews more, but that might just be me making something up...

...actually, my "best" beer (to me) is an IPA that I make, and it's about as close to a full-grain as you can get with a partial mash...seems a perfect balance to me, but it might just be a good recipe in general and not owe its awesomeness to the technique

There's just something cool about getting some big bags of grain in the mail to use for your brew day instead of just one huge jug of LME and a tiny bag of specialty grains. I've only brewed on PM and its going in a keg soon. I'm brewing a second this weekend and just ordered two more recipes from Midwest last night. One thing I'd recommend too is getting a 5.5 gallon pot or larger. I also bought one of these recently and with foam control I can do right at a full boil on the stove.

PM also opens up a range of ingredients that are best utilized in a mash like oats, rye, character malts, flaked barley. plus it gives you somewhat more control over the fermentability of your wort, allowing you to make big beers drier and smaller beers more flavorful than you otherwise could.

Yeah, i forgot to mention, as john from dc pointed out, that PM gives you a much wider range of ingredients to choose from. Something like that certainly can't hurt.

I have done a few PMs and think the beer tastes better. With that said im going AG and would skip PM the time factor is the same and you start to see the price savings.

So would everyone say you should go from extract, to PM, to AG. Or if you have the money to get the equipment you can just move from extract to AG. Is PM a needed for getting things started in learning AG

PM isn't needed per se. I will say this, though, if you've never seen an AG batch made then the jump will be a bigger one for you than going extract to PM. AG isn't hard, it's just involved and there are several steps that are helped by having a familiarity with the process. If you know someone who you can help doing an AG batch then that would probably help. If you are just good at these sorts of things then going AG wont bother you, but if you are shaky about new things then PM is a good way to get your feet wet.

I started doing PM because i didn't have room to jump to AG. AG requires more equipment but it mostly means moving out of the kitchen. Deathbrewer has a good way of doing it on the stove top, but i didn't see that until after i went to PM. If you feel his method will work for you then you're fine. If you have the capacity to do full boils already then moving to AG wont be a problem. If you can't do a full boil then PM is a nice middle between extract and AG because you can still do partial boils since you aren't collecting nearly as much runnings from the mash as you do with AG.

yeah i'd say pm is a nice way to ease into all grain. it's certainly not necessary, and i wouldn't advise buying a lot of pm specific gear because you'll probably find yourself wanting to go all grain pretty quickly. deathbrewer has a great writeup on stovetop partial mash brewing and i think that's a great way to get your feet wet without buying anything special.

the other nice thing is that with pm if you get really low efficiency on your mash, or don't hit your temps, or collect too much/too little wort it's easy to correct your mistakes by adding more or less water and extract. in that way pm is more forgiving than all grain. but after a couple batches you'll have it down i'm sure.