Kegs, Kegs, Kegs

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Are your kegs legal

  • I know they are.

  • I know they are not.

  • I think they are.

  • I think they are not.

  • I don't give a ****.

  • I take the Fifth Element on the grounds of self defication.

Results are only viewable after voting.
Orfy

Orfy

For the love of beer!
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Lets beat that horse.

Be honest, this poll is anonymous.

Legal does not mean buying from someone else who stole them or denied the rightful owner of their property.

It means buying them from someone who had the legal right to sell them.
 
Got two, probably not legal. Bought one already cut open with valve, thermometer etc off ebay. The 2nd one an aquaintance / homebrewer who moved to Seattle didn't want to take all his gear so he gave me one in its virgin state.
 
Mutilated1 said:
Why would kegs be illegal ?

Sorry if thats a stupid question. Would someone please explain ?
Click to expand...
If you do a search, you will find info ad nauseum.

Essentially, some people think that by paying a damage deposit on a keg, they are entitled to its ownership as well.
 
Mutilated1 said:
Why would kegs be illegal ?

Sorry if thats a stupid question. Would someone please explain ?
Click to expand...
407643-can_of_worms.jpg
 
I don't care what people do as long as they don't spread misinformation about it.
People will do as they please, but they shouldn't use this forum to absolve their behavior with wrong-headed economic theories and encourage others to buy into dubious ethical justifications
 
Mutilated1 said:
Why would kegs be illegal ?

Sorry if thats a stupid question. Would someone please explain ?
Click to expand...

I believe this thread is referring to kegs that are converted into kettles. These types of kegs are the property of the brewing company and it is illegal to acquire them without their permission.

The corny kegs you purchase would not be illegal.
 
olllllo said:
I don't care what people do as long as they don't spread misinformation about it.
People will do as they please, but they shouldn't use this forum to absolve their behavior with wrong-headed economic theories and encourage others to buy into dubious ethical justifications
Click to expand...


Bwa ha ha! LOL :mug: cheers man, thanks.
 
boldone said:
The corny kegs you purchase would not be illegal.
Click to expand...
Well, they certainly could be "illegal". The ones I just picked up from an old homebrewer were probably acquired some 20 years ago. Back then, Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola were still using these kinds of kegs to transport their product to soda fountains all over the globe, so the question becomes, how were they acquired from said companies? I like to think that there is a trail of honest transactions leading back to Pepsi and Coke, but that's probably not the case. More likely, a teenager at a pizza place made off with them some Saturday night in 1985 and traded them for a case of Schlitz. I guess to restore the balance I'll have to become a cola drinker and slowly refill the mega-corps' pockets. :D

Of course, nowadays Pepsi and Coke have retired thousands upon thousands of these things and probably did so in huge lots at scrap value. So today when you buy one for $25 or so, there is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it was stolen. More likely some entrepreneur rescued a truckload of them from a scrap yard and is marking them up 50% and supporting your kegging habit at the same time. :mug:
 
I hesitate to even type this because I've read so much online about keg legality and I know everyone is sick of talking about it. But I will anyway :) What is the legal precedent with kegs? The kegs I've seen don't have "Property of So-and-So Brewing Company" on them, they just have the name of the brewery... so do bottles. Here in Delaware, when one buys bottled beer, you pay a "Deposit" on the bottles ($.05 ea.), but you are not required to bring them back. If you purchase a keg of beer, you also pay a "Deposit" on the keg. It doesn't seem different to me. Unless there are specific laws concerning kegs, which of course I've not looked in to. But I'm just curious if anyone has ever been arrested or charged for not returning a keg. How would that hold up in court? If my receipt just states "Container Deposit- $10.00" for a keg and doesn't state that I'm required by law to bring it back, how is that any different than bottles if the receipt would state the same for bottles? I know, of course, that ethically speaking, returning kegs is required because it costs the brewery alot more than $10.00, but has anyone ever been arrested for not returning kegs?
 
menschmaschine said:
Here in Delaware, when one buys bottled beer, you pay a "Deposit" on the bottles ($.05 ea.), but you are not required to bring them back. If you purchase a keg of beer, you also pay a "Deposit" on the keg. It doesn't seem different to me.
Click to expand...

The $0.05 you pay on disposable bottles is mandated by the state, to encourage recycling. I think (?) the state gets that money if you don't return the bottles. The retailer might get it (or a share), but the original "owner" (brewery) doesn't see any of it. If you keep them, it's no problem, because you own them.

The deposit you pay on kegs and returnable (ie the brewery can re-use them) bottles isn't mandated by the state, though the state may set the maximum allowable deposit. The brewery charges this deposit to the distributor as a way to ensure that they get their property back. The distributor passes the deposit cost on to you, though they don't really care if you bring it back or not, since they have no skin in the game. They either recover their deposit, or keep yours.
 
I think mine are legal. I bought them finished from a guy on eBay that has a business around them. If someone has a business front, it's his responsibility to procure his materials legally. What I bought was a finished product and I paid a fair price for it.
 
I bought two kegs from a guy that sells HB equipment out of a trailer in his back yard. These kegs were in great shape and I asked him where his source was that he had gotten them from. He stated that a local distributor (AB) gives them to him from time to time. So in essence I believe that these are legally sold. Who knows if the keg police will ever take them back.
 
Mine are mixed. One was saved from the big crush at the scrap yard. In any case, I know for a fact that it was never going to be returned to the rightful owner. Maybe the absolute right thing to do would have been to call the police and report the place for buying stolen merch. Nah.

The other three I know are illegal, I got them from a liquor store willing to "sell" them for deposit cost.
 
I believe mine to be illegal. I purchased them from a microbrewery/convenience store before I heard of the legal/illegal issue. I asked them if they had any kegs I could buy for homebrewing. They sold me three of them. They have a large brewery's name on them.
 
The only kegs I have I put my legs through.

(kegs = trousers in Scots, i.e. a pair of kegs, "ripped the arse right oot ma kegs jumping oar a fence to flee the coo"
 
I only have cornies, so I didn't vote.

Do you know why Gentiles exist?

Someone has to pay retail.

That's me.
 
menschmaschine said:
Yes, but then again, how many have also been arrested for not paying their TV tax? ;)
Click to expand...

Lots of people get taken to court for not paying the TV licence.
I don't pay mine but I don't watch TV.

The TV licencing agency wrote me a letter asking to come visit.
I sent one back describing my dogs. I've never heard back.
 
orfy said:
The TV licencing agency wrote me a letter asking to come visit.
I sent one back describing my dogs. I've never heard back.
Click to expand...

Nice! Way to stick it to the man! Or perhaps the Nanny (-State). That was one curious thing I had a hard time with when I lived over there (that and waiting 6 months for a dentist appointment)... I guess that's why we had the Boston Tea Party!

For my kegs, I tried for 6 months to acquire them legitimately... Searching classifieds and yard sales. I called salvage yards in a 150 mile radius. I even called Dogfish Head (I live a few miles from the brewery) for "retired" kegs and they wouldn't sell me any. I finally got fed up and walked into a liquor store and asked to buy one. They sold me one for $10.00. Then I asked my rich boss who has a kick-a$$ bar in his basement if he had any empties and he had two. I offered to pay for them but he didn't care. So screw it, I got 3 kegs in great condition for $10.00 and I'm not looking back!
 
I walked into a liquor store and asked for any empty kegs. They were so excited that I brewed my own beer, like they never heard of doing that before, they offered me 5. I took two and never looked back. I figure a 10 gal batch of homebrew cost me $25 if that. The brewery which sacrificed these, sells 6 packs of beer for $7.00. It probably cost them ~$1.50 to make (about $.26 a bottle)(probably less at major bulk pricing). That is a mark up of nearly 500% (looking at this from an Net Present Value (NPV) perspective). Based on that, and don't get me wrong I truly support my craft breweries, I do not feel bad for getting two of their kegs for free. All the gripe you hear on how much money they loose in stolen kegs is by far off-set by the revenue they generate by charging 500% mark up for their product.

The problem stems from those that steal and sell them for money. That should be stopped. But homebrewers shouldn't be punished - especially if it builds consumer loyalty. How many home brewers still buy and drink commercial craft brew and how many will continue too? I will for many many years to come.

I am not saying to condone this practice, nor do I suggest anyone related to HBT condones this, I just want to present a different point of view (also to open a humongous can of worms).

- Devils Advocate
 
wilsonwj said:
I am not saying to condone this practice, nor do I suggest anyone related to HBT condones this, I just want to present a different point of view (also to open a humongous can of worms).
Click to expand...

Yes, you did. Right here...

wilsonwj said:
I figure a 10 gal batch of homebrew cost me $25 if that. The brewery which sacrificed these, sells 6 packs of beer for $7.00. It probably cost them ~$1.50 to make (about $.26 a bottle)(probably less at major bulk pricing). That is a mark up of nearly 500% (looking at this from an Net Present Value (NPV) perspective). Based on that, and don't get me wrong I truly support my craft breweries, I do not feel bad for getting two of their kegs for free. All the gripe you hear on how much money they loose in stolen kegs is by far off-set by the revenue they generate by charging 500% mark up for their product.

The problem stems from those that steal and sell them for money. That should be stopped. But homebrewers shouldn't be punished - especially if it builds consumer loyalty. How many home brewers still buy and drink commercial craft brew and how many will continue too? I will for many many years to come.

- Devils Advocate
Click to expand...

Can Opened. You just said that you were completely justified. Nothing we talked about applies to you because you did some dubious math.
 
Funny numbers right?

I never stated anyone to condone this. I merely spoke from my own point of view. I never said I was completely justified either. I offered some stats and simply stated that I (me myself) do not feel bad about using 2 of their kegs for homebrew based off these numbers.

Lets face it it is not about property its about the all mighty green back, and most of the large commercial craft breweries are doing very well regarding that.


- WW
 
wihophead said:
Although he never figured in the cost of the bottles/kegs, overhead and taxes.......so how much do they really make???
Click to expand...

You are right on with this one, however looking at the P&L from the brewery which provided me with kegs ROI is 29.6%. That is nearly $.30 on the dollar - a phenominal standing.

Craft Brewery is the highest grossing market in the alcohol industry over the last 5 years and according to experts shows no signs of slowing down.

- WW
 
Craft brewers are anxious to solve the theft problem because as much as 40 percent of their business is tied up in keg sales, triple the industry average, said Ken Grossman, founder and owner of Sierra Nevada Brewing Co.

His company, based in Chico, Calif., expects to lose at least 3 percent of its kegs each year and often must wait months for replacements because it orders in smaller batches.
Click to expand...

Source:http://cbs2chicago.com/consumer/consumer_story_184074047.html

SN has to wait months because keg manufactures are replacing kegs forthe big boys first. So your theft from Bud impacts craft beer.
 

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