Alabama is in the house, and I need some help on equipment setup

Hey guys! I have a blichmann top tier, two burners, two 15 gal boilermakers, and two 10 gal igloo coolers among other things. I just bought a march pump, a whole bunch of cam locks and silicone hose, and I have a 50 ft coil of copper for chilling. You might know where im going with this.... Im trying to decide whether to go RIM or HERM. I like the idea of HERM and im willing to cough up the money for a new boilermaker and use my copper coil to install and have a HERM but im trying to figure out a couple of things.

1) the whole point of temp schedules is holding temps for certain periods of time to allow for protein rests and for the enzymes to do their thing and basically cut up starches into sugars that the yeast can work on. The whole recirculating the wort just leads to a clearer wort (supposedly). My question is it takes forever to heat all that liquid in the HLT to 145F, then to 155F, etc. When "stepping" you are supposed to get to the desired temp as fast as possible and hold it there. So is it better to use a combo of direct fire on MLT and recirculate back through autosparge on MLT until the HERM is up to desired temp then recirculate through there OR direct fire on MLT,pump to HERM that is being direct fired as well and back into the MLT through autosparge OR infuse sparge water from boil kettle (this is assuming you are boiling some extra water on the side) on mash to jump it up quickly while recirculating it through MLT and then to HERM ORRRR to really achieve what I want to do, do I have to buy another coil two boilermakers and use the coil I have to make two HERMS and while one temp is achieved and im recirculating im heating the other HERM to switch to.

2) In regards to infusion (if that is your answer along with one of the options). If recirculating the wort is to make a clearer final wort then it defeats the purpose of recirculating if you stir your mash to distribute the heat of the infusion, right? You are just stirring everything back up and destroying the natural grain bed filter, right? It just doesnt make sense to stir it, but if you dont then you have different layers of temperature throughout your mash and your chance of consistency is shot. Its a catch 22, damned if you do and damned if you dont.

My plan is to eventually get the Blichmann tower of power to regulate all of this and have a buddy make a program for me to automate the temp schedules but until then im just confused on which way to go. ANY help would be much appreciated

Samuel9609 said:

1) the whole point of temp schedules is holding temps for certain periods of time to allow for protein rests and for the enzymes to do their thing and basically cut up starches into sugars that the yeast can work on. The whole recirculating the wort just leads to a clearer wort (supposedly). My question is it takes forever to heat all that liquid in the HLT to 145F, then to 155F, etc. When "stepping" you are supposed to get to the desired temp as fast as possible and hold it there. So is it better to use a combo of direct fire on MLT and recirculate back through autosparge on MLT until the HERM is up to desired temp then recirculate through there OR direct fire on MLT,pump to HERM that is being direct fired as well and back into the MLT through autosparge OR infuse sparge water from boil kettle (this is assuming you are boiling some extra water on the side) on mash to jump it up quickly while recirculating it through MLT and then to HERM ORRRR to really achieve what I want to do, do I have to buy another coil two boilermakers and use the coil I have to make two HERMS and while one temp is achieved and im recirculating im heating the other HERM to switch to.

2) In regards to infusion (if that is your answer along with one of the options). If recirculating the wort is to make a clearer final wort then it defeats the purpose of recirculating if you stir your mash to distribute the heat of the infusion, right? You are just stirring everything back up and destroying the natural grain bed filter, right? It just doesnt make sense to stir it, but if you dont then you have different layers of temperature throughout your mash and your chance of consistency is shot. Its a catch 22, damned if you do and damned if you dont.

My plan is to eventually get the Blichmann tower of power to regulate all of this and have a buddy make a program for me to automate the temp schedules but until then im just confused on which way to go. ANY help would be much appreciated

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I have a HERMS, and I'm partial to it. I was talking to a guy who has a RIMS and he's had an issue with some scorching wort when he's ramping the temperatures. I'm sure that's not always the case, but it's something to look into.

1. It shouldn't take "forever" to get up to temperature. If it does, there is an issue. I ramp from 153 to 168 in 10 minutes with my 5500 w element in my HLT and HERMS. Direct fire is fine, too, but you don't want to get above 170 or so. That might make it hard to control the temperature while mashing out.

2. The purpose isn't to get clearer wort- the purpose is to maintain heat throughout the mash. Clearer wort is one of the benefits of the circulating.

THANK YOU! I misspoke when I said the reason for recirc is a clearer wort...i meant it was an added bonus to constant temp. I am really leaning towards HERM, pretty much sold on it, unless someone has a great argument as to why I shouldn't go HERM. Im still wondering if brewers should:
1) Stir their wort if they are recirculating it
2) Do step infusions along with recirculating
3) Use direct fire on MLT in addition to recirculating with a HERM to achieve desired temps
Playing "devils advocate" I predict there is always going to be a distribution of different temperatures throughout the MLT. The temp at the top coming out of the HERM will be right at desired temp while wort in the middle of the mash is at a different temp and the temperature of the wort at the bottom of the MLT (if fired) will actually be over heated. Then you have the temperature distribution from center of mash to walls of the MLT. Should I really be direct firing a mash and over heating it only to send it into a HERM that is not at the desired temp yet ( pretty much sending my wort into a wort chiller until it comes up to temp). I guess I could have my boil kettle going with sparge water and step infuse my HERM. Does anybody have any experience with this?

1. Can't hurt, but I don't see the advantage. If you're getting channeling or a compacted grain bed, that needs to be fixed (not just stirred).

2. I rarely step mash but if you're one that likes to step mash you can do that. You have to be careful with the length of protein rests with fully modified malt, as you can destroy your head retention. I don't do much more than a single infusion mash for most beers, and then just ramp up to mash out temps.

3. What's the advantage? If it's to hit the temps faster, you risk overheating and denaturing the enzymes, as well as scorching your wort. If you're recirculating, the wort coming in should be the same temperature as the wort going out. If not, you need to better insulate your MLT, or fix your recirculation issues.

Isn't home brewing illegal in Alabama?

Seven said:

Isn't home brewing illegal in Alabama?

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This is all hypothetical, of course...

I built a RIMs and only used it twice, it's been sitting in a closet ever since. I had to take the element out after each brew and scrub the gunk off. I'd go Herms if I did it over again.

All hypothetical conversations brother . As of a couple of years ago it is illegal to brew but not illegal to sell all of the components to brew. Its kind of like stills. You cant sell distillation equipment for alcohol but you can sell it for gas ethanol and fractional distillation towers for "distilling water" that just so happens to break in half and turn into a pot still for making whiskey. Truly, I do not know the up to date laws for Alabama. I read on carboy junkies ( a birmingham beer brewing group ) that a new law passed for Alabama where an individual is allowed to transport up to 20 gallons of home brew beer so im guessing that its legal now. Im not planning on testing the law out and calling my local law enforcement. My brother in law is a cop and he is all about me making him some white lightening (completely different monster than beer and carries different penalties).

I really do appreciate yalls input. Do yall have any advice as to the best HERM setup with a brew tree.....ie stacked/staggered, BK lowest and centered with HERM and MLT same height on both sides, something different, march pump at very bottom below BK, pump just below HERM and HLT but above BK, therminator at bottom, therminator next to march pump. Im thinking that the only problem im going to run into is that im going to have to save one side to run the gas lines up and cables down (when I get the tower of power to regulate)

Oh well...thanks for yall help

Samuel9609 said:

Oh well...thanks for yall help

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Yeehaw! That's all I can add to a thread this old...yall!