pH adjustment issues

So on my latest brew (a DIPA) I had some issues adjusting pH on my brewing water. I have very soft water:

Ca 5
Na 17
Mg 1
SO4 6
Cl 9
Carb <1
Bicarb 28
Alk 23
PH 7.6

I added gypsum, CaCl and epsom to get (according to Bru'nwater):

Ca 55
Na 17
Mg 10
Cl 50
SO4 110
Bicarb -7
Alk -9
RA -54(!)

I usually use acid malt to get my mash pH around 5.4 but I forgot to figure out how much before I went to my LHBS. So, I just got my grains and figured I would adjust my mash water with lactic acid, which is what I do for my sparge water.

I have never had a problem adjusting my sparge water. I usually go for a sparge pH of about 5.8. Bru'nwater has always been pretty good for figuring that. However, this time, I added the recommended amount and got a pH of 6.5. I added a little more and got 6.2. I recalibrated my pH meter and then added a little more (by now about double the original amount) and it came down to 6.0. At that point I didn't want to push my luck so I stopped. I had the same experience, not surprisingly, adjusting my mash water. I eventually gave it a best guess and doughed in. Fortunately, my mash came in about 5.5 so my guess was close enough.

I've never had this issue before. Was it the minerals I added? I've brewed with a similar profile before without this problem. However, I don't think I've ever had an RA as low as -54. Could that have been the issue? I usually don't use much (or any) epsom salts but the "amber bitter" profile allowed for more Mg and I wanted to boost the sulfates for a DIPA. Could the Mg be the issue?

In the end, the brew went fine and the mash and sparge pHs stayed in their preferred ranges. It was just a strange experience and it would be good to know what caused it so I can avoid the issue in the future.

pH meters suck. I even use to work in a lab with good quality ones and they still sucked and were never accurate. Get yourself some good strips. ColorpHast from morebeer are awesome.

BlueHouseBrewhaus said:

So on my latest brew (a DIPA) I had some issues adjusting pH on my brewing water. I have very soft water:

.... figured I would adjust my mash water with lactic acid, which is what I do for my sparge water.

I have never had a problem adjusting my sparge water. ... I added the recommended amount and got a pH of 6.5. I added a little more and got 6.2. ... then added a little more (by now about double the original amount) and it came down to 6.0. At that point I didn't want to push my luck so I stopped. I had the same experience, not surprisingly, adjusting my mash water...I've never had this issue before. Was it the minerals I added?

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No. The alkalinity of the water was just higher than normal. The process you describe (add acid to water, check pH, repeat until desired pH is reached) is exactly what the lab guys does when he measures the alkalinity of your water except that he uses a smaller sample and goes to pH 4.5 or so. Water alkalinity can vary quite a bit seasonally, with rainfall etc. For example my well in the States can vary from about 50 to over 100. The would represent a doubling of the acid required to acidify a fixed volume of the water to a given pH.

CRoth36 said:

pH meters suck. I even use to work in a lab with good quality ones and they still sucked and were never accurate. Get yourself some good strips.

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This is very, very bad advice. A modern pH meter in educated hands (see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=302256) chosen from among the ones that have given people on this forum good service (Hach pHPro+, Omega (can't remember the model number), Milwaukee 102) can deliver accuracy of 0.02 or so consistently as opposed to about 0.3 for strips which are just not suited for brewing use (perhaps because the wort stains the chemical pad).

CRoth36 said:

ColorpHast from morebeer are awesome.

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Spelling error. Instead of "awesome" read "awful".

AJ, thanks for the feedback. I hadn't considered the variability of my water source but that makes perfect sense. I am on city water and they do vary the mix seasonally between well water and reservoir. My Ward analysis was just a snapshot of whatever the mix was at that time. I think I'll send off another sample to Ward just to see how much it might vary. Thanks.

Or get a kit (aquarium supply, Hach, LaMotte, pool supply...) and check it yourself. That way you will know what to expect. It is a very simple test.

CRoth36 said:

Get yourself some good strips. ColorpHast from morebeer are awesome.

Click to expand...

Wish it were true. After I bought my pH meter, I checked against strips well over a dozen times, and the Colorphast strips consistently read 0.3 - 0.4 low. I even bought a new package and got the same results. Pretty consistently Not Awesome.

What is the kit I should get? Is it just an alkalinity kit? Is it pretty common at aquarium supply stores?

Yes, they are common at aquarium supply stores (AFAIK) but the kits are made in Germany and are thus labeled Karbonat Hartung and read in dH. The conversion to ppm as CaCO3 is simple.

You could work around the relatively consistent offset that the plastic strips report, but that and the fact that our sometimes highly colored wort can alter what we see, make even the ColorpHast strips less suitable for brewery use. Its just not a good level of measurement accuracy. A freshly calibrated meter that can read to 0.01 units is a much better tool.

I agree with AJ that employing aquarium test kits can assist in identifying variation in your water supply. An alkalinity test kit is very helpful and also including a calcium hardness kit can further deduce how your water quality is changing. Those tests can't tell the whole story, but they do provide guidance on the most important factors with respect to mash pH response.

Thanks guys. I will look around for the kits. I may still get a Ward analysis since it has been about 2 years since my last one (Forgive me, father. It has been 2 years since my last water analysis...)

This one has been good for me:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003SNCHMA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thanks, D-Train. Is there anything you CAN'T get on Amazon?