Problem w/ Mash Tun.. PLEASE HELP

I just tried my first all grain batch this past weekend. Half-way through the mashing process our mash tun got clogged. We used a large Gatorade-style watercoole, in which attached a mesh hose to the spicket to drain the wort. After we cleared all of our grain and wort out of the "mash tun" we noticed that the hose had collaped and gotten tangled from stirring or the heat. Has anyone else had this problem? What is a better way of building a mash tun? I was thinking about making a false-bottom but I heard they collapse. Please Help, Thanks!

Sometimes those braids collapse, since they are "hollow" and the weight of the grain can collapse them. I have a false bottom I bought, but you can make a manifold instead if you'd like. You can make one out of copper pipe, or even cPvc tubing. I'll see if I can find some pictures to illustrate.

This one seems a bit more elaborate than what I was thinking of, but here's an idea (it's from Bsdx's gallery):


This one is ThominSC's:


Here's a copper one from BendBrewer's gallery:



They don't need to be elaborate at all. Just something that will allow the wort to drain while keeping the grain where it belongs. Slits are cut in the bottom, or holes, so the wort can drain out.

manifold is cheap easy and works great

If you use plastic, use CPVC not plain PVC - the CPVC has better heat resistance.

I use a 10 gallon RubberMaid cooler with a false bottom:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_33_82_88&products_id=10654

This has a right angle 1/2 inch MIP to 3/8 inch barb adapter - to reduce the dead space under the false bottom, I used a hacksaw to cut off part of a 1/2 inch coupling:
http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=36_39&product_id=49

so that after screwing the longer part of the coupling onto my false bottom the coupling extends down to about 1/8 inch above the bottom of my cooler. The 3/8 inch barb on top of the false bottom is connected with a short length of 3/8 ID silicon hose to a 3/8 barb to 1/2 MIP adapter which is screwed into another 1/2 inch coupling screwed onto a 1/2 nipple which is screwed into my 1/2 ball valve. It sounds more complicated than it is, but works well and other than cutting down the one coupling is just a matter of assemblling the parts.

EDIT: the silicone hose is attached with stainless steel hose clamps at both ends, so there's no way the assembly will come apart.

just a question, how fast were you draining your wort, and did you recirculate before running off to your boil kettle?
I agree with the previous posters
but i have used a SS Mesh hose for quite a while now without any problems.
I just crack the valve on the mash tun so it starts a very slow flow and recirculate until the wort runs clear. then run off to the boil kettle. If I open my valve all the way I will always clog up..but if im patient and just crack the valve i have never clogged up or had any issues

you can also put some of your tubing in the braid, just cut a bunch of holes in it

one person mentioned putting stainless springs inside the mesh tube to keep it from being crushed.

Related question: if you are batch sparging, couldn't you just build a simple slotted copper tube instead of a whole manifold assembly?

I wasn't having any problems with my braided hose when I decide to replace it with a new braided hose. The new braided hose stuck during the mash. I dumped the grain and put my old braid on it to finish out. After a few more batches with no more stuck mashes I again installed the newer braid and had another stuck mash. I dumped the grain and installed the old braid and didn't have any trouble finishing. I tried a third braid and had no trouble with mash...... Here is what I think..... after now doing three hoses. The first and third hoses (the ones that caused no problems) slipped off the inner hose easily. The problem braid (#2) felt a bit ...'tacky'.. when I removed it from the inner hose, almost like it was glued to it..... Yes, all three were SS and not one collapsed, although i did coil copper wire in the 3rd version just because I had copper wire.

Can you describe how these are built in a little more detail? I'm not sure what you mean by inner hose?

Komodo said:

Can you describe how these are built in a little more detail? I'm not sure what you mean by inner hose?

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These are water supply hoses for toilets, washing machines, etc. comprising a vinyl or rubber hose surrounded with a braided stainless steel mesh for reinforcement. Home brewers cut off the connectors and remove the inner vinyl hose in order to use the braided SS mesh to filter the wort as it is drained from the mash tun.

I built mine from a tip I found here. Coil a copper wire around a pencil and run it inside the braid. I used the copper wire from some Romex I had #12. It has been working great.

I used a flimsy metal grate that was a pizza cooking holder and it was the perfect size for my mash tun and it sits on top of the braided line. Had 1 or 2 very slow sparges out of the dozens of brews I've made.

I fly sparge, and used to employ a fairly original braided manifold (first pic). It is made from SS lav supplies and the connecting fittings are high temperature barbed pex. I had a couple issues with the braid closing up if I kinked it while stirring my mash, and it was a little awkward getting the mesh to fit over the pex fittings during construction. All in all, I didn't love the design, but it usually worked okay (maybe 3 stuck sparge failures over 20 batches).

About three batches ago, I purchased the all-stainless false bottom from brewmasters warehouse (second pic). It was a great decision. The $30 was money well spent, because it is a far superior product to my original braided manifold, and I expect it to last for the long run. Makes me wish I just bought the right tool to begin with.

I am typically a DIY'er, but there is no way I could have built something as well designed as the SS false bottom. It is the right design for my set up.

Another thing to note, which has not been mentioned yet on this thread, is that whatever medium you use (braid/manifold/FB) - its purpose is to seperate the fluid from the grain, not filter the wort. Filtering is done by the grain bed via recirculation. After buying the FB, I read several posts that mentioned not being able to get good clarity using a FB - that is complete BS.

Joe

DeafSmith said:

These are water supply hoses for toilets, washing machines, etc. comprising a vinyl or rubber hose surrounded with a braided stainless steel mesh for reinforcement. Home brewers cut off the connectors and remove the inner vinyl hose in order to use the braided SS mesh to filter the wort as it is drained from the mash tun.

Click to expand...

Oi. Ok I get it now. I understand how they are built, and that they are removed from the inner hose of the original toilet hose assembly - I thought he was saying that his final brewing screen had some kind of hose in it.

Romex copper wire is a great idea for an inner coil type support. Thanks!

Komodo said:

Oi. Ok I get it now. I understand how they are built, and that they are removed from the inner hose of the original toilet hose assembly - I thought he was saying that his final brewing screen had some kind of hose in it.

Romex copper wire is a great idea for an inner coil type support. Thanks!

Click to expand...

I was trying to say that when I removed the "inner" hose from the braid on the first hose it slipped off easily. I never had a problem with that one. When I removed the "inner" hose from the second one it was sticky coming off. I didn't think much about it at the time. I tried that one twice and had two stuck mashes. I recently went to a larger diameter hose and removing the braid was again easy. That is when I started to think about the second hose. I already tossed it away so I can't go back and check it out to see what might be different. I just wonder if the second hose had been sprayed with a sealer or glue of some kind and that is why it was giving me trouble.

Go with a manifold, here is mine..

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/copper-manifold-10-gal-rubbermaid-cooler-228061/

iaefebs said:

I was trying to say that when I removed the "inner" hose from the braid on the first hose it slipped off easily. I never had a problem with that one. When I removed the "inner" hose from the second one it was sticky coming off. I didn't think much about it at the time. I tried that one twice and had two stuck mashes. I recently went to a larger diameter hose and removing the braid was again easy. That is when I started to think about the second hose. I already tossed it away so I can't go back and check it out to see what might be different. I just wonder if the second hose had been sprayed with a sealer or glue of some kind and that is why it was giving me trouble.

Click to expand...

I get ya. It was late and I was drinking beer. This morning it made far more sense. LOL But . .interesting tidbit to know. Might help somebody tearing their hair out. Actually I just bought a toilet hose and will check carefully when I remove it.

You need to wrap a wire around a pencil long enough to fit in your braided hose to give it support......see link below......

I use a slotted copper manifold in mine.Just half inch copper with elbows. Cut slots in underside with a hacksaw , attached to a ballvalve with basic hardware.took about 90 mins to make and $20. Works awesome.

I've used mine for 5 years and have never had the braid collapse. I took that nylon tube that is inside of it, and I drilled holes in it like a machine gun barrell, and put it back into the braid, which keeps it from getting crushed.

This web pic sort shows what I'm talking about except the one in the plumbing line is white and nylon, I think. You clip off the ends, push the ends of the braid towards each other to loosen, then using needle nose pliers pull out the hose, and drill a lot of hole all through it, then put it back in.



I also have it in a circle using a t-fitting like this;



I often even forget to vorlauf and don't get a lot coming through. Just having the braid free floating may cause the gaps in the mesh to be wider than mine- since the braid is in a sense like the chinese finger trap



on mine the gap between mesh can be adjusted. And mine is pretty tight, almost the original tightness as if I never tore it apart and got the core out and put it back in.

The nice thing about my t-fitting is that it's removable, and at the furthest point from where it is connected to the ball valve it actually touches the bottom of the cooler, so there's also not a lot of deadspace in my cooler, only about 1/2 gallon or so.

The t thingy fits perfectly into the hose ends inside the braid, then I used zip ties (really tiny ones) to hold the braid in place. It's been perfect for like 5 years now.









But with the hose in there, it doesn't compress whatsoever.

hatchattack said:

I just tried my first all grain batch this past weekend. Half-way through the mashing process our mash tun got clogged. We used a large Gatorade-style watercoole, in which attached a mesh hose to the spicket to drain the wort. After we cleared all of our grain and wort out of the "mash tun" we noticed that the hose had collaped and gotten tangled from stirring or the heat. Has anyone else had this problem? What is a better way of building a mash tun? I was thinking about making a false-bottom but I heard they collapse. Please Help, Thanks!

Click to expand...

I built mine and reinforced the stainless steel braiding with a coiled length of 12 gauge copper wire.



The folks at my LHBS have never missed cracking my grain bill and I haven't had a stuck mash yet.



I've put 11 pounds of grain into this 5 gallon tun and have been able to lauter all the wort without and stuck mashes.

Screwey, please shrink your pics, you are warping this thread with those large pics forcing folks to scroll left and right to even be able to read the text. Your pix are 1,317px × 996px. it's really bad forum etiquette. 640px × 480px is about as big as you want them for most computer viewing.

This thread has been very helpful! I've noticed tons of stuck sparges with my own equiptment - and it's because the braid continues to collapse. I just want to make sure I understand this correctly -
Revvy- you just removed some of the plastic tubing inside the braid, drilled tons of holes in it, and then replaced it? Is that correct or am I missing something?

I use a surescreen on my mash tun and it works perfect! I got stuck using the braid, the bigger screen is rigid and if you vorlof well you get clean wort!

laxsoccerguy said:

This thread has been very helpful! I've noticed tons of stuck sparges with my own equiptment - and it's because the braid continues to collapse. I just want to make sure I understand this correctly -
Revvy- you just removed some of the plastic tubing inside the braid, drilled tons of holes in it, and then replaced it? Is that correct or am I missing something?

Click to expand...

After drilled holes in it I boiled it for 15-20 minutes, that helped blow out all the little nylon or whatever particles were generated by drilling through the hose. But basically yup, that's all I did.

Putting the hose back in can be a hassel but just remember the chinese finger puzzle concept, pushing the ends towards each other makes it wider and easier to get the hose back in, pulling outward makes it tighter. I use needle nose pliers and long tweezers to help pull the braid in and out as needed.

copper wire coiled around a 5/16 wooden dowel works great in a 1/2 braid. boil in some water and vinegar to clean the coil and your ready to go

brewyourown4life said:

copper wire coiled around a 5/16 wooden dowel works great in a 1/2 braid. boil in some water and vinegar to clean the coil and your ready to go

Click to expand...

brewyourown4life, +1 for the coiled copper wire



This design works extremely well, easy to build and clean, plus never any stuck mashes.