No Activity....24 hours later

Ok, I know this is the same song and dance as many other posts but here is what I have going on. I brewed a milk stout last night. I pitched two bags if wyeast London ale and out it in my cool brew bag. When I got home from work today there is still no activity. My cool brew bag has kept the temp around 64 degrees....I am assuming my temp is to low??? I removed my fermenter from my bag and put it in my house that is 76 degrees today.... Sooo my question is; is the low to mid 60's to cool for London ale yeast????

64F should be perfectly fine. You didn't say if you made a starter or not. If not, the lag time could be up to 36 hours. I always make a starter and see initial fermentation activity within 6 hours.

Make sure you have enough water or alcohol in your airlock so you can actually see bubbles coming out. I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but myself and others have made this silly mistake.

64 is fine for that yeast. Probably slow to start. Give it another day before you panic.

RedBeardedBrewer said:

Make sure you have enough water or alcohol in your airlock so you can actually see bubbles coming out. I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but myself and others have made this silly mistake.

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Sometimes you don't see fermentation due to leaks in the fermenter. Bucket lid seals seem to be the biggest culprit of this.

Alright, 36 hours and no movement.....what is my next step?

If you did not make a starter for the liquid yeast and did not properly aerate the wort active fermentation can take up to 72 hours to get going. You could also have a leaky seal on your lid causing the gasses to escape without showing in the airlock. Did you look for krausen formation? Have you taken a gravity reading? Airlock bubbles really mean nothing...........

If you pitched warm and then cooled the yeast down you also increased the lag time until the yeast acclimates. That yeast works fine at 64 but it does also like to be raised as fermentation slows to keep it busy.

duboman said:

If you did not make a starter for the liquid yeast and did not properly aerate the wort active fermentation can take up to 72 hours to get going. You could also have a leaky seal on your lid causing the gasses to escape without showing in the airlock. Did you look for krausen formation? Have you taken a gravity reading? Airlock bubbles really mean nothing........... If you pitched warm and then cooled the yeast down you also increased the lag time until the yeast acclimates. That yeast works fine at 64 but it does also like to be raised as fermentation slows to keep it busy.

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I pitched my yeast after I chilled wort to 74, on top of that I added a gallon of tap water to bring level up to five gallons. I have checked my lid seal and it "seems fine", I do not see a krausen head yet either....but I am fermenting in a 5 gallon bucket so it's hard to tell. I will take a gravity reading when I get home and hopefully it shows something.

Let's say hypothetically it shows no activity after 72 hours.....what would I do next??? Would picking up a pack of dry yeast and pitching it on top mess things up??? Do they even make London ale yeast in dry form??

I've had batches take 4-5 days to "show" and then gone wild with Wyeast. It's one of the reasons it is not my yeast of choice.....that smack pack may swell but it could have just barely got started I think.....how long did your's sit before you pitched?

Pop the kid and look for krausen. Because you pitched 10 degrees higher than you're fermenting you shocked the yeast and they will be slower to acclimate to the new temp. You also don't mention a starter so you most likely under pitched-both contributing to a longer lag phase.

Be patient, it should take off for you, it's a great yeast and will make a great beer!

Im working on a fermentation right now that I under-pitched as well due to no starter. Mine never really took off but I kept monitoring and checked after a week. Lo and behold, the gravity was down from 1.090 to 1.030. Last night I roused the yeast by gently rocking the fermenter back and forth a few times and guess what..it started bubbling and is still going this morning. All that to say, rdwhahb. Rest easy, drink a homebrew, keep your temps right and let the yeast do their thing. And yeah, to answer your subsequent question. Good dry yeast for british style ales is Safale S-04. Just my few cents worth.

Under pitching increases lag time dramatically, then add on top that it went from mid 70's to mid 60's then back to mid 70's. Yeast has to get acclimated to the temp you are fermenting at, then it will start going and reward you with beer. Get it back to mid 60's and it will start soon. A yeast pack not starting at all happens but is rare, slow starts are common though when not given a head start with a 1L starter wort. In three years I have only had one not start at all, vial was two weeks past best by, and starter just didn't look right. I pitched it anyway and held out for nine days before I repitched. Have faith in your yeast.

I forgot to add that I pitched two bags of wyeast.....my LBS gave me two for one since they were 6 months old. I "smacked" them about three to four hours before pitching, the bags didn't swell at all.....

jhart94949 said:

I forgot to add that I pitched two bags of wyeast.....my LBS gave me two for one since they were 6 months old. I "smacked" them about three to four hours before pitching, the bags didn't swell at all.....

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That's a big forget, less than 50% viability in each old pack so here's to learning how to make starters this explains a lot!

duboman said:

That's a big forget, less than 50% viability in each old pack so here's to learning how to make starters this explains a lot!

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The wyeast pack said it would be fine up to six months past their date....they were exactly 6 months past. I have made starters before but my LBS told me to just pitch both instead....

jhart94949 said:

The wyeast pack said it would be fine up to six months past their date....they were exactly 6 months past. I have made starters before but my LBS told me to just pitch both instead....

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Surprisingly, I have learned NOT to believe anything printed on the side of a yeast tube or packet.

Just dump in dry yeast

Can pitch a single vial of White Labs into anything up to 1.060

Both of these can at least be argued as "poor practices."

jhart94949 said:

I forgot to add that I pitched two bags of wyeast.....my LBS gave me two for one since they were 6 months old. I "smacked" them about three to four hours before pitching, the bags didn't swell at all.....

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They weren't going to swell in 3-4 hours anyway.....fresh takes 5-6 typically and 6 mos old will take even longer, it it does. But theoretically the yeast should be OK. It just didn't get the boost that busting the activator gives it .....and the swelling shows the activator got busted and the yeast is responding. I always bust them (when I rarely use it) 12 hours ahead.

So you have yeast....but I sure wouldn't expect "show" for at least 4 days.....

duboman said:

That's a big forget, less than 50% viability in each old pack so here's to learning how to make starters this explains a lot!

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+1000. Should have led with that. It's not your yeasts' fault, jus poor practices. I would be insulted if my LHBS pushed two old packs on me because they knew one wouldn't work instead of offering me their best freshest product.

Brewed on Saturday and pitched at around noon. Used O2 aeration for the first time as well as a swamp cooler for controlling ferm temps in low 60s. I saw nothing for two days. I was freaking out. Then, at 10pm on Monday,sixty hours after initial pitching, she started up and blew krausen out of the blow off tube. Take it from me, it will work out.

elatowski said:

Brewed on Saturday and pitched at around noon. Used O2 aeration for the first time as well as a swamp cooler for controlling ferm temps in low 60s. I saw nothing for two days. I was freaking out. Then, at 10pm on Monday,sixty hours after initial pitching, she started up and blew krausen out of the blow off tube. Take it from me, it will work out.

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Just took a gravity reading.....48 hours after pitching, temp is holding at 64....1.071, no change.....DAMN-IT!!!!

jhart94949 said:

Just took a gravity reading.....48 hours after pitching, temp is holding at 64....1.071, no change.....DAMN-IT!!!!

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Relax. You essentially pitched half the ideal amount of cells that have been dormant for six months, and swung the temperature ten degrees up and down twice. It's going to take 4-5 days before it really gets going. You can't treat liquid yeast this way and expect them to run like a Ferrari, patience and attention to detail are the best ingredients in really good beer.

k_mcarthur said:

Relax. You essentially pitched half the ideal amount of cells that have been dormant for six months, and swung the temperature ten degrees up and down twice. It's going to take 4-5 days before it really gets going. You can't treat liquid yeast this way and expect them to run like a Ferrari, patience and attention to detail are the best ingredients in really good beer.

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OK.. I will relax...but just wanted to let everyone know I am coming up on 72 hours and no activity or gravity change.....just saying... but I will wait until at least day 5 to freak out!

But still I dont think I ever had my initial question answered.....if something doesn't happen what do I do? Should I pitch a dry yeast on top should I throw it out???

Hey, I'll answer your question. If the yeast really is dead you can always just pitch more. I don't think there's any downside to pitching more yeast. It may not be necessary most of the time but I don't think it can really harm anything either. Definitely don't even think about throwing it out. As long as it doesn't get infected it doesn't matter how long it sits. And if you did pitch some dead yeast it will just settle to the bottom.

My first batch had a similar circumstance. The temperature bounced around between fifties and high sixties while I tried to find a room for it that stayed at the right temperature. Turns out some areas of my house get pretty cold at night. My yeast was probably fresher and I don't remember exactly how long it took to be going, but I was very anxious about it so I know how you feel. I even kept bugging my wife to check on it for me while I was at work.

Never dump a batch, believe in your yeast. I doubt you will have to, but if your yeast doesn't get going I would pitch more. Not sure about pitching a different type though. The chances that two packs, even six months old, are DOA is astronomical. Make a starter for any liquid yeast you pitch from now on.

k_mcarthur said:

Never dump a batch, believe in your yeast. I doubt you will have to, but if your yeast doesn't get going I would pitch more. Not sure about pitching a different type though. The chances that two packs, even six months old, are DOA is astronomical. Make a starter for any liquid yeast you pitch from now on.

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I ordered a starter kit with stir plate and all from AIH. Not going through this again!!!

As long as there is no fermentation activity, you can also add more oxygen. This sometimes helps.

I was just about to post a frantic request for help for my ESB. Used a starter. 36 hrs after pitching, still no sign of activity. Read these posts. Decided to take a gravity reading. S.G. is 1.016. Target is 1.015. O.G. was 1.058. Tastes like beer. Ergo, there has been fermentation.

I ferment in a 5-gallon bucket. Seal on bucket probably leaking if I don't see any activity in airlock, right? Should I be concerned? Any fix for that?

OaklandHills said:

I ferment in a 5-gallon bucket. Seal on bucket probably leaking if I don't see any activity in airlock, right? Should I be concerned? Any fix for that?

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maybe a new lid? personally...i wouldn't bother...it's not hurting your beer.

OaklandHills said:

I ferment in a 5-gallon bucket. Seal on bucket probably leaking if I don't see any activity in airlock, right? Should I be concerned? Any fix for that?

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Nah, no reason to be concerned. One of my buckets never seals enough to get airlock activity, and it's made plenty of good beer, zero infections. The positive pressure from fermentation should be enough to keep anything from getting in.

jhart94949 said:

OK.. I will relax...but just wanted to let everyone know I am coming up on 72 hours and no activity or gravity change.....just saying... but I will wait until at least day 5 to freak out!

But still I dont think I ever had my initial question answered.....if something doesn't happen what do I do? Should I pitch a dry yeast on top should I throw it out???

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3 days; I'd be pitching a pack of dry in that baby to make sure it gets going before any contamination gets hold of it. Probably the liquid yeast will still come through before the dry takes off, but, for me, it would be insurance.

With decent sanitation, the wort should last without any problem for at least a week.

I have a similar problem. I made a starter out of 6 month old yeast on Monday, and so far nothing (3 days). I'm obviously not worried about any loss of beer, but it could mess up my plans for brewing this weekend.

Calder said:

3 days; I'd be pitching a pack of dry in that baby to make sure it gets going before any contamination gets hold of it. Probably the liquid yeast will still come through before the dry takes off, but, for me, it would be insurance. With decent sanitation, the wort should last without any problem for at least a week. I have a similar problem. I made a starter out of 6 month old yeast on Monday, and so far nothing (3 days). I'm obviously not worried about any loss of beer, but it could mess up my plans for brewing this weekend.

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I picked up a pack of Windsor and am going to pitch it tonight, I am brining my fermenter up 68 degrees first though

jhart94949 said:

I picked up a pack of Windsor and am going to pitch it tonight, I am brining my fermenter up 68 degrees first though

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Well I pitched the Windsor on top about 15 minutes ago and the air lock is already starting to talk to me......crazy. I just hope I don't get some crazy flavor a with two different kinds of yeast...

That's your original yeast talking....no way Windsor reacted in 15 minutes.....hate to say it, but everybody told you to wait....except one.

Calder said:

3 days; I'd be pitching a pack of dry in that baby to make sure it gets going before any contamination gets hold of it. Probably the liquid yeast will still come through before the dry takes off, but, for me, it would be insurance.

With decent sanitation, the wort should last without any problem for at least a week.

I have a similar problem. I made a starter out of 6 month old yeast on Monday, and so far nothing (3 days). I'm obviously not worried about any loss of beer, but it could mess up my plans for brewing this weekend.

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wow...talk about confusing someone....
This is just full of contradiction...."3 days...before any contamination. . ." followed by ". . . last without any problem for at least a week."

chezhed said:

That's your original yeast talking....no way Windsor reacted in 15 minutes.....hate to say it, but everybody told you to wait....except one.

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Well, at least it is doing something, when I took a gravity reading on day four there was no change so I cracked the lid and there was no krausen or signs of activity so I pitched the dry yeast snapped the lid down and waalaaa activity about 20 min to and hour later. Maybe I wasn't patient enough, but who knows....I have never had a beer take more that 30 hours to show signs of fermentation so something I did or used (old yeast/colder fermentation) had it in hibernation.

chezhed said:

that's your original yeast talking....no way windsor reacted in 15 minutes.....hate to say it, but everybody told you to wait....except one.

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+1

chezhed said:

That's your original yeast talking....no way Windsor reacted in 15 minutes.....hate to say it, but everybody told you to wait....except one.

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But it's a little strange that there was zero, I mean zero activity for more than 4 days and soon after pitching a dry yeast it just happened to start????

jhart94949 said:

But it's a little strange that there was zero, I mean zero activity for more than 4 days and soon after pitching a dry yeast it just happened to start????

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If it was just airlock activity you were seeing, that's not a definite sign of fermentation. It could have just been some off gassing you got by agitating the wort with the new yeast, or a change in pressure from opening and closing the lid or something. But who knows?

I probably would have gone ahead and pitched some dry yeast too if I had zero signs of fermentaion after 4 days. And those are both British yeasts, so you should be fine flavor wise.

Moral of the story: buy fresh yeast and make a starter!

peterj said:

If it was just airlock activity you were seeing, that's not a definite sign of fermentation. It could have just been some off gassing you got by agitating the wort with the new yeast, or a change in pressure from opening and closing the lid or something. But who knows? I probably would have gone ahead and pitched some dry yeast too if I had zero signs of fermentaion after 4 days. And those are both British yeasts, so you should be fine flavor wise. Moral of the story: buy fresh yeast and make a starter!

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+1!!!!! I have learned my lesson, yeast starter kit ordered and will be here Monday. I was thinking off gassing as well but it has been 12 hours since pitching dry yeast and it is still bubbling away faster and faster, had to put fermenter back in my cool brew bag because it started heating up as well which is normal during active fermentation. Sooooo again +10000 on the fresh yeast and a starter! I appreciate everyone's feedback! Your all awesome brew brothers/sisters!!!

Make sure once your fermentation finishes out that you harvest and store this yeast for the next batch, because after all that yeast abuse only the REALLY REALLY strong yeast colonies are going to survive.

william_shakes_beer said:

Make sure once your fermentation finishes out that you harvest and store this yeast for the next batch, because after all that yeast abuse only the REALLY REALLY strong yeast colonies are going to survive.

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Good call! I have been wanting to try the whole yeast washing thing for awhile, this might be a good opportunity. Plus if the stout turns out good and my wife likes it will give me a good reason to make it again right away.