Stepper Motor Butterfly Valve

Currently I have 10 12v threaded valves on my brewstand, everything is tri clover and im ready to remove all threads finally.

What do you guys think about attaching a stepper motor to butterfly valves, and controlling them with an Audrino?

Breakaway/starting torque will be pretty high, you'll need something pretty robust, but it sounds do-able. Try to tune things so it doesn't have to hunt a lot, too.

That is quite a bit of torque. Would be cool though. Have you price 10 butterfly valves?

Would you put limit switches on there too?

How are you planning on interfacing with the controller?

You could try one of these instead of an arduino: https://www.spark.io/

I definitely would have to use limit switches in order to get the calves to properly open and close.




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sandyeggoxj said:

That is quite a bit of torque. Would be cool though. Have you price 10 butterfly valves?

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I realized that I only have 5 valves in contact with wort. So I can save some money. I have a feeling this is going to be a $500 project. I also am feeling better about this project because one valve burnt out today.

I also understand that the breaking Torque is really high. Something like 800 oz in. It can be archived with a geared stepper motor and a large gear.

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Usually they are pneumatically operated. You can find them pretty cheap on auction.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f253/breweries-introduction-108110/index4.html#post2051201

thekraken said:

Would you put limit switches on there too?

How are you planning on interfacing with the controller?

You could try one of these instead of an arduino: https://www.spark.io/

Click to expand...

That's a retry sweet board! I'm not sure I want to mess with any more wifi stuff. I have way to many issues connecting to the web to begin with. Currently I run a really long Ethernet cord.



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orangehero said:

Usually they are pneumatically operated. You can find them pretty cheap on auction.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f253/breweries-introduction-108110/index4.html#post2051201

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True, but those are a few $$$ per. I havn't put that idea to rest yet. I also was thinking about a ram connected to to the lever.



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Automation direct has a great selection of gear motors.

On a side note, how is the ro system working out for ya?

sandyeggoxj said:

Automation direct has a great selection of gear motors.

On a side note, how is the ro system working out for ya?

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I'll have to check that out.

The RO system works like a dream, I use it for my own home drinking water, beer turns out perfect and couldn't be happier. It was probably one of the better investments I have made.


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kickflip_mj said:

Currently I have 10 12v threaded valves on my brewstand, everything is tri clover and im ready to remove all threads finally.

What do you guys think about attaching a stepper motor to butterfly valves, and controlling them with an Audrino?

Click to expand...

Im in the same boat as you, but Im thinking about going a bit different direction

Im debating whether it would be worth the time to disassemble the valves I currently have and machine out the threads, then welding on a triclamp fitting to the end of the valve. Its a bit of work, but cheaper and easier to implement that self built butterfly valves.

I havent seen anybody else talk about doing this, and I have to admit I havent broken down one of my valves to see how possible this is yet

ryane said:

Im in the same boat as you, but Im thinking about going a bit different direction

Im debating whether it would be worth the time to disassemble the valves I currently have and machine out the threads, then welding on a triclamp fitting to the end of the valve. Its a bit of work, but cheaper and easier to implement that self built butterfly valves.

I havent seen anybody else talk about doing this, and I have to admit I havent broken down one of my valves to see how possible this is yet

Click to expand...

Something that detoured me from doing this is, I took a bit and ground down one side of the threads in an extra valve. Found a air pocket at the bottom were it tappers. Might just be one bad valve.



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kickflip_mj said:

Something that detoured me from doing this is, I took a bit and ground down one side of the threads in an extra valve. Found a air pocket at the bottom were it tappers. Might just be one bad valve.



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you still have the valve? could you post a pic of the "flaw"

ryane said:

you still have the valve? could you post a pic of the "flaw"

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Yeah I won't be home till Friday to do so. I also cut the threads off completely and tried to weld a fitting on. The problem is they are made of crap metal and I couldn't get a good arc.


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kickflip_mj said:

Yeah I won't be home till Friday to do so. I also cut the threads off completely and tried to weld a fitting on. The problem is they are made of crap metal and I couldn't get a good arc.


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Click to expand...

what type of valves do you have?

ryane said:

what type of valves do you have?

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I have the typical1/2 ss 12v grey top ball valves at the moment.


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Did you ever get anywhere with using a stepper motor? I have several sanitary diaphragm valves that I would love to automate, both for ease of actuation and better control of flow rates.

Here's my idea: It seems to me that a custom enclosure could be 3D printed that would attach directly to the mounting plate on the top of the valve. This is a standard sized mounting plate that I've seen on many different ball valves and butterfly valves. Inside the enclosure would be a micro controller that would receive commands over a 1-Wire bus, which means you could connect any number of valves together with a single string of wire. The stepper motor would be in the same enclosure and it would probably be seated at a 90 degree angle to the valve shaft to make the enclosure more compact. It would directly drive the shaft with a worm gear, or some kind of reduction gearing could be used if more torque was needed, but this would slow down actuation. The cool thing about the stepper motor for me is you could stop the valve at any point, so you could get precise flow rates, with an optional flow meter giving additional feedback.

BuddhaMaster3000 said:

This is a standard sized mounting plate that I've seen on many different ball valves and butterfly valves.

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Non of my different brand sanitary butterfly valves have standard sized mounting unless from the same manufacturer and are the same size.

The stepper motor would be in the same enclosure and it would probably be seated at a 90 degree angle to the valve shaft to make the enclosure more compact. It would directly drive the shaft with a worm gear, or some kind of reduction gearing could be used if more torque was needed.

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All the sanitary butterfly valves I have tested up to 2" worked with a 2 Nm torque motor. As soon I used valves with hardened Buena N seals more torque was required to close them correctly, with silicon seals I have not seen the problem.
A picture showing my home made pneumatic butterfly valve, used a rotary air cylinder..

Why reinvent the wheel? There are many valve actuators that are "Modulating" which means they control the degree of rotation of the valve stem on butterfly or ball valves. There is a good description of this here: Modulating Control Valves. Typically these are controlled by an input signal of 4 to 20 mA (4 being closed and 20 being full 90 degree open) or 0 to 10 VDC (0=closed, 10=full open). This same site has a page dedicated to valves and flow meters for brewing applications.

valveMaster, those are some nice looking valves, but looking at the prices they are upwards of $1k each. I also have an interesting challenge with my valves because they are diaphragm valves and require a vertical-motion actuator instead of a rotary actuator. Lately I have been thinking of trying to find a linear actuator like those used in robotics and power seats/recliners, but so far those are also looking quite expensive when you consider that I have 10 valves I want to automate.

Yes, they are not cheap, but a lot of these are more industrial type valves better suited for commercial brewers where failure would be costly. The most inexpensive modulating actuator can be found on the SM series motorized ball valves, however they are not available to fit on butterfly valves, only these unique "Sure Mount" ball valves. The wiring video for these actuators is very informative as to how they work with a thorough description of the control signal, feedback signal, and limit switches.

As for your use of diaphragm valves, automation direct offers pneumatic cylinders that could possibly be used, and they are fairly inexpensive ($10 and up). The problem here is that you would need to control the air pressure in order to achieve proportional flow control, and that will get expensive. In this case, perhaps the original suggestion of a stepper motor would be a good solution, converting the rotary motion to linear using a simple threaded rod. I have seen a few people use these stepper motors and threaded rod to make unbelievable CNC router machines. They used a simple piece of nylon tubing and 2 small clamps to make the mechanical connection from the motor shaft to the threaded rod. The were also using arduino as the method of control. Good Luck!

Thanks valveMaster. You cannot practically modulate with pneumatics due to air's compressibility. Hydraulic would be ok.

Also, unfortunately I buy 304SS body 1/2"NPT modulating valves from the mfg (in China, not proud to admit it) for less than half of your price for played brass bodies. The quality is exceptional (I wish I could say it wasn't) and they have proven good durability so far. They are IP67 have a V-ball, digital readout, and position indicator.

We do need a legit ON/OFF and modulating version, electric, small-scale butterfly (no internal voids) with TC mount for a reasonable price. I wish someone would produce this.