My issues: Carbonation and off flavors.

Hey everybody. I have been having some very frustrating issues. I have bottled my latest two batches of beer and 1 batch of apfelwein. I need advice on how to eliminate problems and make better beer!

My main problems is uneven carbonation. On the beers, some bottles are fine, others are completely flat. There is no logical following for this--as in I keep my beers in order of filling and some flat bottles are near the beginning, middle and end of the order of fill. So this makes me feel like inadequate mixing of priming sugar is NOT to blame.

My apfelwein I bottled has 24 bottles that I added priming sugar to before bottleing. I used 2 oz. of dextrose to prime these. They show very little sign of carbonation, even when opened.

With the beers, I followed the volume directions on the dextrose package. I plan to measure it by weight from now on, but can dextrose lose its fermentability with time?

My other issue is that may first batch of AG is having the same problem, but the flat beer tastes apple-y and vinegar-y. I was planning to open all the bottles, individually prime them and recap. But this batch that was my favorite batch yet when I tasted the hydrometer samples now tastes pretty bad.

Here is the timeline:
First batch of beer: Primary for 4 weeks, secondary for 1.5, has been in bottles for 5+ weeks.

Second batch of beer and my first All Grain: Primary for 4 weeks, bottle for 4+ weeks

Apfelwein, Primary for 4 months, bottle for 7 weeks

I plan to inspect the bottles to ensure they are capping and sealing properly, but does anyone have any advice or possible causes in the mean time?

This relates to both carbonation and flavor, and you have been here long enough to know this next important question, BUT...How long are you waiting to sample your bottles?

99% of the time, both those issues stem from simply opening your bottles too soon. I assume since you have a 700+ post count that you've read my carbonation/conditioning blog, and I don't have to link it.

But as long as you've passed the timeframe mentioned in the blogs, and ruled out operator impatience, then you can look elsewhere for the cause, but if not...then more than likely nothing's wrong that a little time will fix.

Sorry I meant to post timelines as well! I will add this to the OP as well.

First batch of beer: Primary for 4 weeks, secondary for 1.5, has been in bottles for 5+ weeks.

Second batch of beer and my first All Grain: Primary for 4 weeks, bottle for 4+ weeks

Apfelwein, Primary for 4 months, bottle for 7 weeks


One thing I want to add is on my first All grain batch my efficiency was at most 69% so I know it would be lighter than I wanted...but the problem is the lack of body allows the off flavors to be VERY noticable...as well as no carbonation LOL

Also they sat at 68ish in the basement for the first three weeks of bottle-carbing/conditioning then moved them upstairs to a closet that is at 70-75 ish

I honestly thought my dead guy clone was a bottle of YOUNG and green Edwort's Apfelwein on the first sip

I definitely think that measuring by weight will give you more consistency from batch to batch, even though that doesn't seem to be the immediate problem.

I'm assuming that the caps are all fine, and the bottles are all similar bottles. There aren't many reasons that carbonation would vary so much in a batch, and you've already mentioned those- one is incomplete mixing of priming solution, and of course leaking caps.

When you boil your priming sugar and add it to your bottling bucket, I assume you rack so that the beer fills the bucket from the bottom and "swirls" around a bit to mix. I would also think you're using a bottling wand, and capping the bottles the same way. I'm really at a loss.

Yooper_Brew said:

When you boil your priming sugar and add it to your bottling bucket, I assume you rack so that the beer fills the bucket from the bottom and "swirls" around a bit to mix. I would also think you're using a bottling wand, and capping the bottles the same way. I'm really at a loss.

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Yes I am at a complete loss as well and it is very frustrating. It is also humbling at the same time to remind me that I am not as an advanced brewer as I wish I was.

The capper is a very old bench capper that my dad has had for about 25 years. I wish I could say that is the problem but the batch I brewed him carbed fine.

However the only other thing I can think of that doesn't have to do with an error in my own process is the priming sugar. A guy I bought a bunch of stuff from craigslist gave me 4-1pound bags of dextrose. I just have no way of knowing how old these bags are...or if age even matters.

One of the batches is Cheese's caramel vanilla ale, but I cut back on the lactose and vanilla a bit. The other is Yooper's very own dead guy clone (which I butchered in efficiency as my first AG batch).

The CVA is very good, even flat...

The Dead guy clone is terrible...which surprised me because I was sure it was going to be my favorite batch I had ever brewed upon tasting the hydro samples. In fact it was the first beer I ever finished the hydro sample haha

When I get home from work I will post a picture of the beer I bottled in a plastic bottle to show you all the complete lack of carbonation.

If you want to check the dextrose; dilute some in water and see what the SG is. 1 lb in 1 gallon should be around 1.036 (or 2 ozs in a pint s the same).

I used to use dextrose but someone started me on regular table sugar, and I've never gone back. I can't tell the difference, and it is cheaper and available at any supermarket. Just remember to use 20% less than you would of dextrose (corn sugar). You will know what you are getting from the store rather than off Craigslist. I suspect it will be dextrose that you have; not worth substituting for anything else. Dextrose will keep it's fermentability pretty much forever.

I usually stir the wort after racking onto the sugar solution to make sure it is well mixed.

One problem I have had with carbonation has been associated with bottle caps. I bought a load from my LHBS, that they sold by weight. When capping, I found they were a little tighter/harder to put on than my others. I have found that most bottles that they have been used on have low carbonation, while others in the same batch with more expensive caps are OK. Maybe it's just my capper is not man enough for these 'stronger' caps.

I can't help with the apple-y or vinegar-y taste. Sounds like oxidation or infection. get them drunk quick.

Here is the Dead guy clone in a 16 oz miller lite bottle after a month:



I always use a plastic bottle each batch and squeeze the headspace out before sealing it up. This way I can tell when the beer is carbed and ready to be "sampled"

Just an update, I uncapped, reprimed and re-capped 90something bottles. I had a revelation that I used my bottles hot out of the dishwasher possibly harming the yeast. This could be responsible for why there was no logical order to the carb levels...the ones I grabbed hot out of the dishwasher may have no yeast left and those that had time to cool did have healthy yeast.

But I scratched that Idea since my plastic miller lite bottle didn't carb either

I can't get a handle on your problem, either, but I use dextrose, and here's what I do:

1. I weigh out the dextrose on my electronic kitchen scale; 5 oz per 5 gal batch. The dextrose I get is kinda fluffy, unlike granulated sucrose (table sugar), so, like Yooper, I think weighing is important.

2. I boil the dextrose in 2 cups of water.

3. When racking begins, I throw the hot dextrose solution into the beer. And, yes, the racking hose makes the beer swirl around in the bucket, I suppose promoting mixing. And, no, there's no evidence that the hot dextrose solution does anything to the yeast. There's also going to be a certain amount of mixing going on -I assume- as I progressively drain the bucket when I'm filling bottles.

4. I've never had an uneven carbonation problem through 18 months of extract brewing and 18 months of AG brewing.

5. EXCEPT. I am drinking the last of a batch of Midwest's Scottish 80/- that I am certain (in what memory remains to me) that I primed (the beer tastes faintly sweet), there is evidently yeast in the bottom of the bottles, and yet it is barely carbonated, even though I bottled on Cinco de Mayo. The beer tastes perfectly OK (I've made the Scottish 80/- before), it just gets a few bubbles initially and is not -quite- flat. Give what I wrote earlier, this is my big puzzler....can't figure it out, and don't think I'm going to. Another six-pack or so, and I'll have consumed my mistake.....if it even IS a mistake.
Given the way it's turned out, I am forced to conclude that my memory has played me false, and I did, indeed, forget to prime.

“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

- Sherlock Holmes

Germelli1 said:

I always use a plastic bottle each batch and squeeze the headspace out before sealing it up. This way I can tell when the beer is carbed and ready to be "sampled"

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Uhmmmm.... that is your problem. If you are squeezing the bottle it has to use co2 to expand the bottle back out before any pressure ever starts to build back up in your bottle. And the pressure is what forces the co2 into the beer to carb it.

MajorTom said:

Uhmmmm.... that is your problem. If you are squeezing the bottle it has to use co2 to expand the bottle back out before any pressure ever starts to build back up in your bottle. And the pressure is what forces the co2 into the beer to carb it.

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No, he does that to a single bottle to use as an indicator.

Haha, Ok. My bad. I thought that kind of wierd to do that to all the bottles.

The only other thing I would suggest is BE SURE your caps are going on correctly. I mean, if you have yeast and sugar they just have to carb. I have never had a bottle not carb. I have gotten bad bottles before that a cap would not fit on properly though. Thats the only thing I can think of.

That is what I was thinking as well. When I recapped I capped each batch with a different brand cap to see if that was a potential issue.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Rico, this is the first issue I have ever faced with uneven carbonation as well. I am just trying to figure out what each batch that this happened to has in common and I keep coming back to the dextrose. I just bottled a new batch with it but I measured by weight this time so I am eager to see if this one carbs up fine.