Recipe design for an American Wild Ale

taking the plunge into sours. Got my hands on a mason jar of trub/yeast wash of EBY020- bug county. After thinking it through, I thought I might do an American Wild Ale, since we are all fancy now and have it as an official BJCP style. I have never brewed a sour before (*read "purposeful sour" haha), but I am a relatively veteran brewer, so I have a decent idea of what I need to do. That being said, I still would love some advice for this beer. Currently I am looking at:

09lb 08oz 2-Row
00lb 08oz Honey Malt
00lb 08oz Crystal 120
00lb 08oz Flaked Rye

0.125 oz Columbus 60min- 7-IBU

Pitching ECY bug county.

Mash Temp- 160F
Final Vol. 5.5gal
Predicted OG: 1.055
Predicted FG: 1.003
Predicted ABV: ~6%
Predicted SRM: 10

After 4-6mo, take an oak spiral, soak it in cabernet sauvignon (vacuum sealed) for 1mo. Add spiral to the beer for 2mo. Let age to ~8-10mo (so an additional 2mo after removing oak spiral). Bottle condition. The idea is not only would the spiral impart a caberent character, but the wine itself will significantly mellow the oak character of the spiral, giving it a much more mild barrel character.

So with that in mind, I would love to hear some thoughts and commentary. Thanks in advance!

I would up the flaked rye and/or add in some flaked wheat. Last sour saison I did got down to 0.0996! Cept I mashed at 150...

but my point is, it has a great mouthfeel since I used 3lbs each of flaked and regular wheat. Its best to have something that will help support the super dry body. I think brett and other bugs are capable of fermenting the long chain sugars you get from mashing high, but I could be wrong

The wild bugs can indeed chew up the normally "non-fermentables" left behind by Sacc. I was wondering if I needed to up the flaked grains! Thanks. maybe I will do 1-1.5lbs

Sounds like you have a solid plan.

I don't have a lot of experience with oak or any wood aging, so I'm a bit paranoid about the idea of dropping in some oak and leaving it for a preset amount of time. I'd just plan on taking samples every so often after adding the oak.

However, if you've used oak with clean beers before, you might know what you're going for in terms of time the beer is in contact with the oak.

Why mash so hot? The idea that brett and bacteria will only be active if sacc leaves behind a lot of fermentatbles is false. I tend to stick with a lowish sacc rest (146ish) , highish dex rest(158ish), and then a hot sparge to get some tannins. For a beer that's going to take more than a year to be ready, a little extra time mashing is worth it to me.

If you have a lower alpha hop you can use more of you should do that instead. Hops contribute more than alpa acids to a beer. I haven't used bugfarm/county recently, but I don't think IBUs are an impediment to acid production with that blend.

What's your thought with the c120? It just sounds weird to me in this recipe. What to do you expect it to taste like? More flaked won't hurt anything, but an all malt mixed ferment beer can have plenty of body.

Don't get fancy with the wood. Put it in there and leave it in there. After you make this beer, don't even pull a sample for a full year.

TNGabe said:

Why mash so hot? The idea that brett and bacteria will only be active if sacc leaves behind a lot of fermentatbles is false. I tend to stick with a lowish sacc rest (146ish) , highish dex rest(158ish), and then a hot sparge to get some tannins. For a beer that's going to take more than a year to be ready, a little extra time mashing is worth it to me.

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I know in general Sacc will leave plenty behind regardless, I originally had the mash at 155 which may be a happy medium since I really don't do any sort of step mashing. But I will looking into that.

TNGabe said:

If you have a lower alpha hop you can use more of you should do that instead. Hops contribute more than alpa acids to a beer. I haven't used bugfarm/county recently, but I don't think IBUs are an impediment to acid production with that blend.

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While I understand hops contribute much more that alpha acids to a beer, but I guess I am not quite getting your point. with <10IBU as per the general style, I don't quite grasp what differences using a greater amount of lower alpha hop would make. That being said, I would love to know more.

TNGabe said:

What's your thought with the c120? It just sounds weird to me in this recipe. What to do you expect it to taste like? More flaked won't hurt anything, but an all malt mixed ferment beer can have plenty of body.

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Ha, and here I thought the honey malt would be the thing to raise a bunch of eyebrows. the C120 has 3 prominent roles. (Not necessarily in order of importance) 1st- color, I love the color C120 imparts on a beer, so you could say C120 is partially as aesthetic choice. 2nd role is to assist the honey malt in adding a layer of sweetness and unfermentables for the brett and bugs to chew on. 3rd is the actual flavor of C120. I feel the slight burnt sugars/caramels flavors along with the prune and raisin flavor will add a malt-based complexity that will compliment the diverse characters of the bug county.

TNGabe said:

Don't get fancy with the wood. Put it in there and leave it in there. After you make this beer, don't even pull a sample for a full year.

Click to expand...

While I completely understand where you are coming from and also traditionally give the advice to keep it simple, I don't want the oak character to directly compete with the complexity of the bugs. That is one reason why I considered using wine. It will partially "neutral" the oak spiral, and at the same time, the red wine could impart an additional layer of complexity. That being said, I would rather it be unnoticeable rather than dominating the beer. I may just leave the oak out all together, that or bump it up to a 10 gal batch and do one with oak and one without.

Thank you for the suggestions TNGabe. I am interested to hear what your thoughts are.