Help me design a wort chiller with 50' 3/8"

I picked up 50' 3/8" copper tubbing today for a good price ($25) on Craigslist.

I'm new to homebrewing, and right now I'm doing 5 gallon (extract) full boils in a 30qt pot.
(This one actually: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00267Q3JW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20)

Eventually, I would like to start doing 10 gallon (all grain) batches, but this will likely be awhile. Still, I'd like to design the chiller good enough to handle 10 gallon batches.

I was thinking a couple of ideas:
1) Just a standard IC, then when I go 10 gallon, upgrade to a whirlpool IC. I'm not sure I completely understand how to build the whirlpool, it looks as if you can just add the whirlpool later on at some point.

2) Rib-cage style
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/diy-interwoven-rib-cage-immersion-chiller-106415/

3) 35' standard IC, or Rib-cage. Then 15' in an ice bath (pre-chiller). Seems like the pre-chiller would better be served as an upgrade later on tho...

4) 2 25' standard ICs, an inner and outer ring.

Concerns:
I'm a little worried about the displacement of wort when I drop the 50' into the kettle. Also, I don't know how tall to make the chiller, so that it will later be compatible with a larger 10-gallon able kettle.

I'd rather not solder if possible, tho if I had to solder in an upgrade I would OK with that (I don't have the tools).


Thoughts?

Edit: Forgot the mention I live in NC, so the tap water temps can be warm a good part of the year.

I have 50' in and inner and outer ring that isn't soldered. I have two inlets meeting in a tee that connects to the hose. I have two equal length plastic tubes connected to outputs. Hence one in and two outs. I used to have one single and managed to pickup the extra 25' cheap so it was an addition and this was the easiest way to do it. All my hoses are attached with hose clamps and I tighten them at every use. The coils are also set so that I can stretch or compress them easily, depending upon which brewpot I use (they are both the same displacement but have different dimensions) and I simply poured X gallons into the pot and measured the depth to determine what height to make my chiller. You can measure the potential displacement right now....simply mark something at a level of liquid, drop in the tubing and then pour out the liquid into a measuring device (or collect and measure later) till you get to the original mark. Pour that into your brewpot and measure depth and voila, the distance of displacement...all without math
You do have tube benders, right? If not, pick them up...they are cheap and you will need them.

If you don't have many tools the standard IC is going to be the best option. I don't see much of an advantage with a rib-cage chiller or a dual ring chiller. Especially considering the fact that 50' will be more than adequate for a 5 gallon batch and adequate for a 10 gallon batch. A prechiller would be nice but I think you would be better off using the entire roll for a IC to begin with and upgrade to a prechiller later, like you mentioned.

If you can't solder currently it does limit your options. I would make the IC inlet and outlet long enough to reach over the edge of your pot and attach the hoses with worm clamps. This way if they leak somewhat it will leak onto the floor and not into your wort. Other than this you could use shark bite fittings but they are expensive. By using either of these methods you will be able to replace them and solder on other fittings in the future if you decide to.

Answering the question about the displacement and how tall to make the chiller is difficult as we would need more details.
1. What are the dimensions of your kettle? (internal diameter and height)
2. What is the capacity of the kettle?

Hi Beertastic. I would use the full 50' for a rib-cage style IC. With the interlaced design, it offers more surface area in the wort for temperature transfer and both the intake and discharge ends of the chiller can then be at the upper end of the chiller and extend over the edge of the pot. I would then bite the bullet and buy another 25ft. of 3/8" copper from HD and make another simple IC to use as a pre-chiller. I had some leftover copper (75') from my HVAC when I built my house, so I made a ribcage chiller. I then bought a 25' IC from a guy on Craigslist for $15, which I use as a pre-chiller. I currently do 5 gallon, full boil batches and with this set up I can easily cool the wort to pitching temps. in 10 minutes. I live in Michigan, so I have been putting the pre-chiller IC in a five gallon bucket and filling it to the top with snow. Then I fill the bucket with water and leave the pre-chiller in there during the full boil time. I put my rib-cage IC into the kettle with 15 minutes left to boil. When boiling terminates I start the chilling. My hose water goes into the pre-chiller and chills the ground water even more and then goes to the rib-cage chiller in the wort and discharges into my woods. When I was doing 3 gallon boils for 5 gallon batches, I was able to chill from boiling to 75 degrees in 6 minutes. With the 5 gallon boils, it has tacked on 4 to 5 minutes, but still is done in about 10 minutes. I would anticipate it handling 10 gallons in around 20 minutes once my AG system is ready, but I don't have any hard evidence on that yet.

Good luck! Just my 2 cents, but I'm still relatively new to the HB scene and there are certainly a lot more guys out there with waaaaaay more experience than me.

Approx inside dimensions are: diameter 13", and height 11". It's a 30 qt. pot. I'd rather it be too tall now, then not tall enough when I upgrade to 10 gallons.

I do not have a tube bender yet, but was planning on getting one. The coil is far too large to fit in my kettle right now, and I don't want to start bending till I'm ready to bend, so I will have to test displacement later.

And is it possible to add the whirlpool technique as an upgrade to a standard IC?

With a 30 quart pot you should be fine with a 5 gallon batch and roughtly 50' of 3/8" copper inside. Most turkey fryers are 30 quarts, mine included. My turkey fryer was able to easily hold a 5 gallon batch and 50' of 1/2" copper.

I think the best solution for determining the proper height is to fill the kettle to where it would be for a finished boil and make the coil that tall or taller. By making it you will more easily accommodate a 10 gallon batch. To say what height you need now for a 10 gallon batch is impossible unless you know what kettle you will get. You generally can stretch the coil taller if needed in the future.

You CAN add a whirlpool attachment in the future if needed. This could be done with soldering or various other methods. It basically consists of adding a piece of tubing that will direct the outflow of a pump so that the returning wort creates a whirlpool.

As a side note I was easily able to make my immersion chiller with no tubing bender. I was only able to do this by using copper 90s that I soldered on. In all reality if you have to choose probably best to buy soldering supplies rather than a tubing bender. Both would be ideal. Just my thoughts.

50' ribcage IC with no soldering no tube bender no problem

just a corny keg to bend around

That is a really nice looking chiller Shook, I'll bet it cools like crazy.

Ravio11i said:

That is a really nice looking chiller Shook, I'll bet it cools like crazy.

Click to expand...

thanks!

took about 20 mins to make...

212 deg to 70 deg in about 10 mins

ill probably change the in and out to be more hook like when i get a new boil kettle

but yeah..

works good

I came in to suggest using my ribcage chiller. I saw it in your post.

My work is done here.

P.S. I'm going to make a ribcage chiller from 50' of 3/8" myself.

Hey beertastic,
Well I'm new to brewing myself but after seeing a couple videos using drop-in style chillers and counter-flow chillers, I decided to go for it and make a counter-flow. It took my 200 degree wort down to tap water temperature in the time it took to siphon it!

I just put a little post on getting the tube through the hose (which I thought was the hardest part of the whole project). Good luck!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/counter-flow-wort-chiller-lube-not-needed-sorta-236593/

I'm leaning towards either rib-cage or standard IC with the option to whirlpool later. I did go ahead and buy a tube bender today for $5.99 at Harbor Freight, which was way cheaper than Home Depot/Lowe's. Shook, that one looks pretty good and not too hard to make.

The counter-flows look like a PITA to clean, which is my main reason for not really considering them.

Yea wasn't too bad cleaning so far BUT...if you let too much sludge get in while siphoning it will most definitely clog on you. Good luck w/ the project. It will work good I'm sure. A lot better than a sink filled with ice!

Maybe I understood you wrong and i'm a bit non metrically challenged.
But the displacement of a 50 foot 3/8 chiller should be less than 2 qt.
And from experiance, keep your 50 foot pipe intact and by some more pipe for your pre-chiller.

If you want ideal, cut it in half and run two separate coils. That would put the most cold water in contact with the wort at any given time. It takes twice as much time for the incoming cold water to exit a 50 ft coil as it would 25. Of course, if you have no intentions of soldering anything, just keep it linear and it will be fine. If you want to go custom, you can take a 3/4" copper pipe cap and drill two 3/8" OD holes in it. Then you can solder in the two ends of the tubing to make a 2-1 manifold. The slightly easier way, but less neat, is to use a tee.