Straight to AG. Is it wise?

So, I brewed a dozen batches (all extract kits) back in the early 90’s but life and children and limited budgets got in the way so I sat it aside. A couple years ago, I gave wine a shot and did a couple of batches (both red and white). However, the results were not of the high quality that I anticipated. So know I am back to beers again.

I racked my first beer into the secondary this morning, and realized that I am approaching done with extract brewing. It does not hold the challenge. I still intend to brew, but I think I want to jump right over mini-mash, and partial grain, and dive headlong into all grain. I have recently read, “How to Brew” and “Brew like a Monk”, and am currently working my way through “Designing Great Beer.”

I think I have a handle on it, and I always have you folks for support. So here is my question: Is this a reasonable course of action? The Oak Butt Brown Ale AG recipe in Palmer’s book seems reasonable enough. Do I really need to baby step my way to AG, or should I just jump in the deep end.

Just jump in. It's not the big deal that some make it out to be. Only difference is the mash, which just requires an igloo cooler, some vinyl tubing, and a simple valve, all from Home Depot.

[what I don't add is that AG will lead you down a path of endless equipment upgrades, unnecessary all, that will bankrupt you]

passedpawn said:

[what I don't add is that AG will lead you down a path of endless equipment upgrades, unnecessary all, that will bankrupt you]

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Perfect.

jscottb said:

Do I really need to baby step my way to AG, or should I just jump in the deep end.

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There's really not that much to "jumping in." Just get a mash tun (converted coolers are pretty cheap) and get started. That's all you really need if you're willing to fill, vorlauf and sparge by hand.

An HLT will make that easier, of course, and a pump would make it even easier, and an autosparge would be great, and you'll have to get better ways to chill with the greater volume etc etc. But that's what's fun about it.

jscottb said:

So, I brewed a dozen batches (all extract kits) back in the early 90’s but life and children and limited budgets got in the way so I sat it aside. A couple years ago, I gave wine a shot and did a couple of batches (both red and white). However, the results were not of the high quality that I anticipated. So know I am back to beers again.

I racked my first beer into the secondary this morning, and realized that I am approaching done with extract brewing. It does not hold the challenge. I still intend to brew, but I think I want to jump right over mini-mash, and partial grain, and dive headlong into all grain. I have recently read, “How to Brew” and “Brew like a Monk”, and am currently working my way through “Designing Great Beer.”

I think I have a handle on it, and I always have you folks for support. So here is my question: Is this a reasonable course of action? The Oak Butt Brown Ale AG recipe in Palmer’s book seems reasonable enough. Do I really need to baby step my way to AG, or should I just jump in the deep end.

Click to expand...

Dude,

I did a batch of Cooper's English Bitter extract and a week later, I jumped into the All Grain Blue Moon clone (another thread). Even tho I goofed on a couple of things (heated all 5 gallons of water to 172 deg F then pitched all the grains and it took an hour for the water to drop to 154 deg F), the 8 day wort I sampled today still tasted great.

If I can do it, YOU can do it. Grow some stones, cinch up yer sack, and just do it! Piece 'o cake!

DY

billvon said:

• An HLT will make that easier, of course,
• and a pump would make it even easier,
• and an autosparge would be great,
• and you'll have to get better ways to chill with the greater volume
• etc
• etc.

But that's what's fun about it.

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Well, there ya go.

have to get better ways to chill with the greater volume

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I have an immersion chiller. Is that insufficient?

Immersion chillers are perfect.

Jumping straight into all grain isn't that hard, especially if you do a little research, which it sounds like you have. I myself started doing all grain. I never bought extract until last year when I started doing yeast starters.

Your chiller is great.

All you need is a cooler for a mashtun.

Everything else falls under the "nice to have", so don't let it stop you. Concentrate on the mashtun.

My best advice is to read every book you can...TWICE. Take notes! Pretend like it's an exam. I did about 4-5 extract batches before partial mash. Once i did partial i realized i didn't need that either. Been all-grain for about a year now and no need to go back. It's mad easy! Especially if you are resourceful and can get some **** done. Mash tuns can also be your brewpot if you can keep a constant temp.

A.G. is VERY easy! It just takes practice.

Not to spark a riot, but if your brew kettle is big enough, you could also try Brew In a Bag. Otherwise I agree with the others - go for it. I wish I hadn't waited so long.

Sounds like you have plenty of experience on the basics, go for it. Few tips, keep some DME handy just in case you don't hit your gravity so you can adjust. Online infusion calculators are really accurate, give the mash time to balance out before trying to adjust temperature with hot/cold water as that leads to a teeter-totter effect of frustration. Hope those thoughts help, good luck.

abazin said:

Not to spark a riot, but if your brew kettle is big enough, you could also try Brew In a Bag. Otherwise I agree with the others - go for it. I wish I hadn't waited so long.

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+1

Its not much harder than steeping grains:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

Even easier, mash and sparge in same kettle with all your water instead of splitting it, but there may be some enzyme problems with high wheat grain bills I think:
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4650&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0/fa

Jus do it man. I did about 3 extract batches before doing AG, and wished I'd just gone straight to AG from the beginning. My only advice is go as big as you can at the beginning, so you don't end up buying stuff twice. Having a second or third kettle can be useful, but I couldn't imagine having an extra undersized mash tun sitting around collecting dust.

jump on in with us, the waters good, and the rivers huge.

passedpawn said:

[what I don't add is that AG will lead you down a path of endless equipment upgrades, unnecessary all, that will bankrupt you]

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So it's pretty much like extract with an extra step.

Sounds like you already had the extract part down so it isn't like you would waste a lot of time by messing something up. Besides you really can't mess much up to badly unless you don't clean or sanitize anything. The only difference that I see between all-grain and extract is needing a bigger boil kettle and getting a mash tun. You really don't even need a bigger mash kettle but then you would have to do smaller batches.

I did something similar. I brewed all of 1 extract kit. Then a week later decided to just dive in and go for AG. That was about 3 months ago. Now I've got 2 AG batches bottled and 2 in various stages of fermentation. I have read pretty much everything I can google about the process twice and now I look longingly at threads in which folks have documented their brew shed build outs. O! How I want one!

just do it.

sorry

Do it. Not that you can't make good beer with extract, but you'll get to play with new toys and it's an enjoyavle process. If your water is good, there's really nothing holding you back.

I BIAB and I don't even have an immersion chiller. I'm on my 7th batch of AG in three months. If I can do it, you can do it too.

passedpawn said:

Just jump in. It's not the big deal that some make it out to be. Only difference is the mash, which just requires an igloo cooler, some vinyl tubing, and a simple valve, all from Home Depot.

[what I don't add is that AG will lead you down a path of endless equipment upgrades, unnecessary all, that will bankrupt you]

Click to expand...

+1 People make AG out to be a major deal, but it really just takes a little extra time and patience.

Wow! Not a single naysayer in the bunch. I guess I am in. I have been getting questions from the family regarding Christmas gifts, so this just heavily populated the list. BTW, I am assuming my 8 gallon brew pot may not be sufficient for a 6 gallon boil (assuming sufficient headspace is required). I guess I can use that one as the HLT, and step up to a 10g for a brew pot?

8 gallon will be sufficient for a lot of brews (use Fermcap), unless you plan on higher gravity beers. I'd say start with what you have, see if anythign needs improvement, and then buy something that will last you a long time (ie. 15 gallon brew pot). 8 to 10 is not enough to justify an investment, IMHO.

I have a 7.5 gallon brewpot and the only time I had a boilover was when I left the boil unattended. I had something like 4 gallons in the pot. Friday, I boiled off a gallon and a half in the same pot, starting with upwards of 6 gallons. I was just very careful about not boiling over.

8g is fine. Use it for a while. Get some Fermcap-S and add to pot just before the boil, it will make that pot work fine.

You might want to step bigger than 10 when it's time to upgrade. 15.5 is nice

Did you read the fine print in my prev post?

[edit] damn jfr you beat me to it, and almost verbatim!

Oh yeah, I saw the fine print! This will turn out to be just like everything else I have done, from flying to boating to juggling to watercolor painting to playing guitar. If you have an extra dollar, someone has something else you just have to have to do whatever it is you do better. I am sure these beers will one day cost me $20 a whack!

.

I agree with the others....jump in! I did one extract kit as my first batch, then went AG shortly after. I use a converted cooler for my MLT and an 8 gal kettle. The 8 gal is fine for most 5 gal batches. Boilovers aren't much of an issue, as I keep to 6.5-7 gals pre-boil and keep watch as it gets close to the boil. If you use a big spoon to scoop the foam so it doesn't create a solid insulating layer, boilovers can be easily minimized.

The only thing I really added when going from extract to AG is the MLT, which was pretty cheap. I also use a simple, homemade immersion chiller and it works just fine. There is a little extra time involved for the mash, but it's not like you have to sit there for 90 minutes not doing anything else. After 19 batches in about 15 months, I'll not be going back to extract. Just like my cooking/baking/coffee roasting, AG really makes me feel like I'm creating something from scratch. What I like about it is the customization you can bring to your recipes....the possibilities are endless.

Good luck with going AG if you decide to do so!

I skipped straight into all grain, I feel my beers are pretty good when I follow the recipes already posted. My problem is I like to experiment. I learned the hardway that mash hopping takes a lot more than 3oz of hops to be beneficial.

Small down payment on SP-10 burner (40ish), 8 gallon tamale steamer (30), cooler for mashing (already own several), braid/nipple/whatever (10ish), 60 quart taller than wide cooler for swamp cooler (40), upgrade to a chest freezer (180+ranco). 5 gallon glass water jug at ghetto pottery store (5.99), already had the 6 gallon from trying to make mead. 25 gallon pot impulse buy ($44 clearance), 15 gallon pot impulse #2 ($39). If you consider I've only gone out drinking twice in 6 months I'm not doing to bad on cost for the hobby and I buy beer maybe once a month now.

^^^ Hmmm, the more I think about it, the more I realize that brewing hasn't changed my BEAR consumption in any significant way

I started watching more Bear about a year into doing AG, but I think that had more to do with interest in wilderness survival than brewing.

Whatever do you guys mean.

jscottb said:

So, I brewed a dozen batches (all extract kits) back in the early 90’s but life and children and limited budgets got in the way so I sat it aside. A couple years ago, I gave wine a shot and did a couple of batches (both red and white). However, the results were not of the high quality that I anticipated. So know I am back to beers again.

I racked my first beer into the secondary this morning, and realized that I am approaching done with extract brewing. It does not hold the challenge. I still intend to brew, but I think I want to jump right over mini-mash, and partial grain, and dive headlong into all grain. I have recently read, “How to Brew” and “Brew like a Monk”, and am currently working my way through “Designing Great Beer.”

I think I have a handle on it, and I always have you folks for support. So here is my question: Is this a reasonable course of action? The Oak Butt Brown Ale AG recipe in Palmer’s book seems reasonable enough. Do I really need to baby step my way to AG, or should I just jump in the deep end.

Click to expand...

Your story sounds almost exactly like mine. I made the jump to all grain using brew in a bag method and now I'm doing traditional batch sparging. I also went straight into kegging this time. I recommend that as well.

wacko said:

I also went straight into kegging this time. I recommend that as well.

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Yeah that was already on my to do list. However, my first beer was a big Belgian that needed to be bottled.

jscottb said:

Do I really need to baby step my way to AG, or should I just jump in the deep end.

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I'm not one to baby step anything. If I'm going to do it, I'm in it all the way. Next weekend, my first two all grain batches. I was going to build a large tri-level rig, even have the plans on my desk, but then I read about BIAB and I'm going to do a hybrid of that method even though SWMBO gave the okay for the extra burner/pot and the whole rig thing in general. I've got lots of toys but not a lot of disposable income after SWMBO's college tuition and all I really want is a good beer.

Sit back, sip a cold one, and ask yourself if you can stir grain into hot water. Your answer to that question will be your answer to your original question.

specialkaye said:

I'm not one to baby step anything. If I'm going to do it, I'm in it all the way. Next weekend, my first two all grain batches. I was going to build a large tri-level rig, even have the plans on my desk, but then I read about BIAB and I'm going to do a hybrid of that method even though SWMBO gave the okay for the extra burner/pot and the whole rig thing in general. I've got lots of toys but not a lot of disposable income after SWMBO's college tuition and all I really want is a good beer.

Sit back, sip a cold one, and ask yourself if you can stir grain into hot water. Your answer to that question will be your answer to your original question.

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Good luck on your 1st AG beer. It really is easy with BIAB. I have made plenty of great beer using this method. It's so easy I feel like I am cheating.

electronjunkie said:

Good luck on your 1st AG beer. It really is easy with BIAB. I have made plenty of great beer using this method. It's so easy I feel like I am cheating.

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Thanks. I'm okay with "cheating" if we get some good beer out of it. Bottled SWMBO's request last night. Spent the evening drinking beer with SWMBO in garage. Must have been okay, she hasn't had a beer since about 1986. Warm and flat, it was wonderful. Somehow though, I didn't quite end up with as many bottles in the closet as I thought I would. But, we both kinda ended up in the closet too, if you know what I mean.

fineexampl said:

My best advice is to read every book you can...TWICE. Take notes!

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I disagree with this.


Books make it seem much more complicated than it is. Pop open youtube, watch a couple videos, and go to town.