American Pale Ale Three Floyds Zombie Dust Clone

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jspain3 said:
I'm not sure what I did differently, but this is the cloudiest beer I've made. Hopefully, some cold conditioning and time will help. Should be carbed up this weekend, so we'll see.
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Really interesting that you mentioned that, the same happened to me.

It was the cloudiest beer ever. Cold conditioning helped, but still was very weird.

I will brew it a second time but will go for a american ale yeast instead.
 
Lpera said:
Really interesting that you mentioned that, the same happened to me.

It was the cloudiest beer ever. Cold conditioning helped, but still was very weird.

I will brew it a second time but will go for a american ale yeast instead.
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It's been just over two weeks since bottling and I've tried two beers thus far to see how the carbonation is coming along. At least it tastes pretty good. There is definitely a lingering bitterness but hopefully that smooths with time. The beer itself is very tropical, aromatic and citrusy, so I can't really complain too much. Once they're carbed up, I'll cold condition the crap out of them.
 
I kind of enjoy this beer and my neighbors like it a lot more. I did a different hop schedule where I added 60 min Citra hops, then a bunch at flameout and a bunch more after it cooled for 20 minutes. I.e. I did what is referred to as a hopstand/ hop steeping.

Insanely cloudy, like it looks almost like sludge, but sure has a ton of flavor and aroma. This was simply due to the long time the beer sat between 160* and 190*

I found that everyone preferred the beer at 3 months than when it was really young (3 weeks -> a month).

The cloudiness never subsided which bothers me kind of a lot. I personally don't think the increased flavor/aroma was worth it when I get a pretty ugly looking beer. Personal preference of course.

So yeah, I actually was able to compare mine with many bottles of zombie dust my neighbor picked up during a vacation. Definitely similar, though the real-deal was cleaner. I thought my beer and Zombie Dust were good beers but nothing I need to seek out in the future. Seems like I just might not be the biggest fan of citra hops? Don't throw anything at me!
 
Zippox said:
So yeah, I actually was able to compare mine with many bottles of zombie dust my neighbor picked up during a vacation. Definitely similar, though the real-deal was cleaner. I thought my beer and Zombie Dust were good beers but nothing I need to seek out in the future. Seems like I just might not be the biggest fan of citra hops? Don't throw anything at me!
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You can try it again with a different hop or blend of hops. I brewed it with Nelson sauvin, which was good but not really great IMO. I have a mosaic batch on tap now that I really like. I think it's a good American IPA recipe that works great as a base for experimentation.
 
FFF probably has equipment and processes that result in cleaner beers than the average home brewer also.

I know I have made this recipe quite a few times and seen more batch to batch variation than what I have had from FFF
 
Can somebody please explain to me why adding the hops to the wort while it is rising to a boil results in less IBUs than if the hops were added after it has reached a rolling boil?

trying to fully understand what is occuring during the FWH as I have never done this before.
 
THVbrew said:
Can somebody please explain to me why adding the hops to the wort while it is rising to a boil results in less IBUs than if the hops were added after it has reached a rolling boil?

trying to fully understand what is occuring during the FWH as I have never done this before.
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I'm pretty sure that first wort hopping like you mentioned does not result in less calculated IBUs. Rather it seems to reduce the perceived IBUs by somehow making the hop flavor a bit smoother and less sharp I'd say.
 
TallDan said:
You can try it again with a different hop or blend of hops. I brewed it with Nelson sauvin, which was good but not really great IMO. I have a mosaic batch on tap now that I really like. I think it's a good American IPA recipe that works great as a base for experimentation.
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Yeah I don't have any problem with the base beer recipe and I'm sure eventually I could find a hop combo that makes this a stellar beer to me.
 
I kegged my beer. It did not really come to life until it reached 3 weeks of conditioning; patience was a virtue. Took 2nd place (out of 11) in Pale Ale category, all comments were "to was too hoppy for Pale Ale", but is was delicious.....
 
Northern Brewer has an extract kit called "Zombie Dirt" that is free right now with purchase. I need some things from them so I may pull the trigger.

Here is their kit
3.15 lbs Gold malt syrup
3.15 lbs Munich malt syrup (10 min late addition)
2 lbs Golden Light DME (10 min late addition)

.5 carapils
.5 medium crystal

Hops are the same as op

Should I ditch the given steeping grains and go with the ones in the op?
- a little googling informed me carapils serves a similar purpose as carafoam and led crystal is close to 60l.
So next question is can I just add the melanoidin malt by itself or should I include the pound of Munich in the extract op.

Do you think the given extract will do reasonably well?

NB is only doing the extract for free unfortunately.
 
I have made this several times and have compared mine to real ZD and its dead on. Except that mine has a slight lingering bitterness that i cant figure out. Used spring water, so it cant be a cholramine issue.

The real ZD bitterness is gone from the pallet upon swallowing, but mine lingers on the back of tongue for a while. Tannins? Im going to try a fwh then move all the hops to 10min and later. I BIAB, with a squeeze, btw.

Here is a comparison of mine (left) and real ZD (right)

This one came out 6.3 abv with US-05. One week primary, one week secondary/dry hop, drinking it from keg by end of third week.

Sorry about pic. Dont know why its sideways.

IMG_2850.JPG
 
Shaman, do you make any modification to the original recipe?
 
shaman1204 said:
I have made this several times and have compared mine to real ZD and its dead on. Except that mine has a slight lingering bitterness that i cant figure out. Used spring water, so it cant be a cholramine issue.

The real ZD bitterness is gone from the pallet upon swallowing, but mine lingers on the back of tongue for a while. Tannins? Im going to try a fwh then move all the hops to 10min and later. I BIAB, with a squeeze, btw.
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If you suspect a Tannin issue you could try a 90 min boil. I BIAB as well and have had beers with weird bitterness like described until they aged 4-5 weeks in package. It has seemed to not return since I switched to the longer boil.
 
gnor said:
Shaman, do you make any modification to the original recipe?
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Slightly. The original has the SRM and the IBUs a little high. I used the same grain bill and hopping schedule, just adjusted for those two things, as I got those numbers off the 3F website and other internet sleuthing. Since I FWH with warrior its not a true "all citra" clone, but from what I have gathered, 3F uses warrior for a lot of their bittering.

Heres mine (I scaled mine up to the 6 gallons skeezer originally posted so you can compare side to side)

OG: 1.065
FG: 1.016
Color: 6.9SRM (could probably be 7 or a few points higher, as you can see from my pics)
IBUs: 50.6 tinseth (my citra hops were 14.5 AA)
ABV: 6.3%


12# 2row US
.5# Munich light 10L US
.48# carafoam DE
.4# melanoiden malt US
.3# crystal 60L UK


.36 Warrior FWH
.80 Citra 15 min
.80 Citra 10min
.80 Citra 5 min
1.2 Citra 1 min
1.2 Citra flameout
dryhop 5 days with 2oz Citra

mash @ 150 for 60 min. mash out @ 168 for 10 min.
S-04 at 68* for first week

I had two blind taste testers with the last keg comparing mine to the real ZD and neither could discern a difference, until I pointed out that lingering bitterness.

I may skip the squeezing and do a 168* "sparge" with the bag over another pot next time and see how that comes out. Oh yea, my efficiency is 78%, so adjust your system accordingly.

*edited to change yeast to S-04, I misspoke in earlier post
 
So, I brewed up another batch of this recipe about 3 weeks ago and all I can say is wow!

I did change up my hop schedule a bit. I am using the same amount of hops and I'm still using all Citra, but I have changed it to be just 3 hop additions.

My hop schedule in my last batch was the following:

.75 oz. Citra - FWH Addition
2.5 oz. Citra - 10 Min
2.5 oz. Citra - 1 Min

Then I dry hopped with 3 oz. of Citra after about 10-12 days in the fermenting bucket and I dry hopped for 4 days.

The flavor is citrusy and amazing and so smooth. This might be the best beer I've brewed to date! :mug:
 
I am brewing this beer tomorrow using the Extract/PM recipe. When I punch all of the recipe into BeerSmith's app I get an IBU of 156!! How is that even possible? This doesn't look like an insane amount of hops.
 
evans5150 said:
I am brewing this beer tomorrow using the Extract/PM recipe. When I punch all of the recipe into BeerSmith's app I get an IBU of 156!! How is that even possible? This doesn't look like an insane amount of hops.
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Cancel that! The app had actually put my 6lb of DME as a late addition with no time. That was killing it. Had the ABV at 1.66%....haha!
 
shaman1204 said:
Slightly. The original has the SRM and the IBUs a little high. I used the same grain bill and hopping schedule, just adjusted for those two things, as I got those numbers off the 3F website and other internet sleuthing. Since I FWH with warrior its not a true "all citra" clone, but from what I have gathered, 3F uses warrior for a lot of their bittering.

Heres mine (I scaled mine up to the 6 gallons skeezer originally posted so you can compare side to side)

OG: 1.065
FG: 1.016
Color: 6.9SRM (could probably be 7 or a few points higher, as you can see from my pics)
IBUs: 50.6 tinseth (my citra hops were 14.5 AA)
ABV: 6.3%


12# 2row US
.5# Munich light 10L US
.48# carafoam DE
.4# melanoiden malt US
.3# crystal 60L UK


.36 Warrior FWH
.80 Citra 15 min
.80 Citra 10min
.80 Citra 5 min
1.2 Citra 1 min
1.2 Citra flameout
dryhop 5 days with 2oz Citra

mash @ 150 for 60 min. mash out @ 168 for 10 min.
S-04 at 68* for first week

I had two blind taste testers with the last keg comparing mine to the real ZD and neither could discern a difference, until I pointed out that lingering bitterness.

I may skip the squeezing and do a 168* "sparge" with the bag over another pot next time and see how that comes out. Oh yea, my efficiency is 78%, so adjust your system accordingly.

*edited to change yeast to S-04, I misspoke in earlier post
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How that turned out with Warrior as bitter hops?

I've always got this lingering bitterness and I suspect its from using Citra as bitter hops.

thanks
 
Just brewed this recipe today, but pitched S-05 instead of S-04 since that's what I had laying around. I've never had Zombie Dust down here in Florida before, so I probably won't be able to tell the difference anyway :p . Anyone have any opinions on how this alteration might change the final product other than giving me higher attenuation?

Will update when it is finished and in the keg. Thanks for the recipe!
 
Amadeo38 said:
Just brewed this recipe today, but pitched S-05 instead of S-04 since that's what I had laying around. I've never had Zombie Dust down here in Florida before, so I probably won't be able to tell the difference anyway :p . Anyone have any opinions on how this alteration might change the final product other than giving me higher attenuation?

Will update when it is finished and in the keg. Thanks for the recipe!
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I always do a split batch, half us05, the other s04. The s04 adda more fruity flavors and all who have both like it better. Nothing wrong with the us05, just not as good.
 
Just brewed my 3rd batch of this one again yesterday. Thats a good brew.

Weird thing is that I always miss the OG on this beer, got just 1.060. The thing is that my process is nicely tuned and I rarely miss the OG, but it always happens when I brew this one. Can't start wondering why, since I always carefully prepare with beersmith.

Anyway, next time I will just add more base malt.
 
RodrigoEick said:
Just brewed my 3rd batch of this one again yesterday. Thats a good brew.

Weird thing is that I always miss the OG on this beer, got just 1.060. The thing is that my process is nicely tuned and I rarely miss the OG, but it always happens when I brew this one. Can't start wondering why, since I always carefully prepare with beersmith.

Anyway, next time I will just add more base malt.
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What are your pre-boil volume and gravity, and post boil volumes? Also what is your expected efficiency?
 
skeezerpleezer said:
What are your pre-boil volume and gravity, and post boil volumes? Also what is your expected efficiency?
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Skeezer -- when you wrote this recipe, what efficiency did you use? Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to update the recipe with your efficiency. I would think this would help people who don't use beersmith but know what efficiency they usually get.

That being said, the previous poster (RodrigoEick) I'm sure doesn't care too much about your efficiency since he uses BeerSmith and knows to scale the amount of grain accordingly to match his equipment and efficiency.
 
FWIW, everyone (including myself) who has tasted my split batches prefers the one dry-hopped with Mosaic (WLP002)* vs the Citra (1968)* dry-hopped version. It has a smoother mouth feel and slightly sweeter taste. Both are great beers, but if I were brewing this again, I would definitely do the Mosaic dry hop in lieu of the Citra only dry hop.

* - I included the yeasts used to ferment each batch as that was another variable between the split batches, but I think the yeasts are pretty comparable and wouldn't impart as much of a difference as the dry-hop variable. However, I only have 5 batches under my belt, so take this with a big grain of salt.
 
Zippox said:
Skeezer -- when you wrote this recipe, what efficiency did you use? Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to update the recipe with your efficiency. I would think this would help people who don't use beersmith but know what efficiency they usually get.

That being said, the previous poster (RodrigoEick) I'm sure doesn't care too much about your efficiency since he uses BeerSmith and knows to scale the amount of grain accordingly to match his equipment and efficiency.
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I can't remember what efficiency I used off hand, will try to remember to check and update it.

In Beersmith if you use the correct percentages of grain, set your efficiency, then scale to the desired OG it should work.
 
jammin said:
I think it's 75%
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And in beersmith it starts the program with a default of 70% for efficiency. That changes once you update your equipment profile and all, but that could explain the low gravity RodrigoEick gets when brewing this recipe. Perhaps he normally gets 70% efficiency.
 
I brewed this up three weeks ago. Just kegged it on Saturday. I tasted the gravity sample and it seems pretty good so far.

I adjusted the crush on my mill a few brews ago and am still trying to dial in my new numbers. I went finer with the crush and am coming in a little high with all my numbers. I ended up at 1.071 for my OG. Then, I thought I had an S-04 in the fridge, but turns out it was 2 US-05, I forgot I had used the 04 on a brew a week before.

Anyways, FG came in around 1.013/1.014 little tough to tell with the bubbles. It's on gas carbing up now. So I'll report back when I am able to take a real taste. Initial sample was really nice for a flat beer.
 
So this is my first attempt at this recipe (extract), and first attempt in my new home. I was so worried with chilling quickly, I think I over shot, and ended up at about 60* roughly when I pitched. It's sitting in my basement with ambient temps of about 62-63*...and the little Fermtemp strip on the side of the fermenter is showing somewhere around 58-60*

Will this be ok? Or too cold to get going? I could bring upstairs into living area where we are at 70*...but not sure that's a good idea. So far, I'm about 6 hours after pitching, no activity.

My OG came out at just about 1.062, which was right as targeted.

Thanks! Great site and great info!
 
ruascott said:
So this is my first attempt at this recipe, and first attempt in my new home. I was so worried with chilling quickly, I think I over shot, and ended up at about 60* roughly when I pitched. It's sitting in my basement with ambient temps of about 62-63*...and the little Fermtemp strip on the side of the fermenter is showing somewhere around 58-60*

Will this be ok? Or too cold to get going? I could bring upstairs into living area where we are at 70*...but not sure that's a good idea. So far, I'm about 6 hours after pitching, no activity.

Thanks! Great site and great info!
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Sounds perfect, that's how I like to start a fermentation.
 
I did the mash on a variant of this recipe today. Bumped the two-row up to 15.5lb and munich up to 1.5lb for an Imperial IPA. Did the mash and brought it up to a boil, but am going to let it sit until tomorrow. (Didn't do any FWH.) Haven't decided on my hop schedule yet, but there will be a lot of 'em.
 

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