Pizza Dough Struggle

mosquitocontrol said:

If you can't find high gluten flour, you can buy the gluten separately. Add about 4 tsp for a batch.

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Really?! I've never heard of that! Link?

Check health/natural food stores for vital wheat gluten. Here's one brand.

You can also order high gluten flour from King Arthur. Note that they also have an Italian flour that they recommend for pizza crusts and Italian breads. It only has 8.5% protein vs. over 14 for the high gluten flour. I guess it depends on how chewy you want your crust.

well now that its supposed to snow (says the forecast on weather.com) on sunday which might cut my ski weekend short, I might spend the day on sunday / monday trying out different pizza dough and sauce recipes. Sounds like a perfect snowy day activity. That and I might brew up some Blizzard Brew (brew outside in the snow) if its not too too cold.

thanks all for the suggestions this really turned into a great thread!

I also use the King Aurthur in the blue bag labeled as bread flour but I use a 1/4c each of whole wheat and rye also to give it some interest. I've played around with butter vs. olive oil in the dough also and much prefer the butter. In fact, my hot pretzel and pizza crust recipe is looking more and more alike only the pretzels get 1/4c of sugar.

/agree

I've switched over to butter for a lot of things recently. I've practically bought stock in unsalted butter lol.

cut your ski weekend short because of snow!!!!! preposterous!!!! that means get up there and get snowed in, bummer i have to ski another day!!!!!! friggen ski!!!!!! hurray!!!!

o yah, and shoot whoever said evoo, may that woman die!!!!!!!!! death to Rachel Ray, and her bland a!@# way of cooking...... im starting a I hate rachel ray thread


and here it is complete with poll https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/i-hate-rachel-ray-do-you-98157/

https://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/...toreId=10052&catalogId=10002&productId=354084

I add this to all my breads.

Opherman47 said:

cut your ski weekend short because of snow!!!!! preposterous!!!! that means get up there and get snowed in, bummer i have to ski another day!!!!!! friggen ski!!!!!! hurray!!!!

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no worries didn't cut it shot because of snow....ended up cutting it short because i found out friday (on the way out the door) that we did not have MLKjr day off.
totally screwed all plans.

made pizza dough yesterday. still don't have a stone, but i used a different flour. the king arthur bread flour. now my issue is manipulating the dough. I couldn't hand form it and ended up giving in and using my rolling pin. any techniques on handforming the pizza dough?

i have recently been making pizza in the new forman. it makes a wonderful pizza

I make sort of a disc with it and let the weight of the dough stretch it out, hanging it off my fingers and rotating it.

I don't do it often enough to master the "in hands" formation method. I hold the dough down on the floured counter with the palm of my right hand and stretch outward with my left hand's thumb and forefinger, rotate the dough repeat. If you use 100% bread flour, it's going to be too springy. Experiment with a mix of bread and all purpose. Also, make sure you're letting the dough rise to double its size before trying to work it.

I make pizza dough every week and I'm pretty happy with the results. I researched what flour to use at one time and I thought I remembered reading that pizzarias generally use high gluten flour from Italy. Bread flour is a second best because of it's increased gluten content, but not quite as good as the 'real deal'.

To make 2 pizza doughs, I mix 2 cups bread flour, ~3/4 cups water, 1 tsp salt, and 1 tsp yeast in Kitchenaid mixer (w/ dough hook). Mix on low until it the dough is formed, then mix medium-fast for about 5-7 minutes, then let it rise in the bowl (covered with plastic wrap) for 2 hours. Then cut the dough into 2 equal-sized pieces, invert them into balls and place on a flat surface (e.g., cutting board), cover with plastic wrap and let them rise for an hour. Then I freeze one for future use and make one into pizza.

To form the pizza, I just use a rolling pin to flatten it out a bit, then do the rest of the stretching by hand. You do it enough and you can get pretty good at it. The pizza stone and peel are essential (sprinkle corn meal on the peel). I bake it at 550°F for about 8-10 minutes. That's as high as my oven goes, but in the summer I put the pizza stone on my gas grill and get good results as well. The finished pizza has a crusty outside and a chewy inside. I love it.

Bobby_M said:

I don't do it often enough to master the "in hands" formation method. I hold the dough down on the floured counter with the palm of my right hand and stretch outward with my left hand's thumb and forefinger, rotate the dough repeat. If you use 100% bread flour, it's going to be too springy. Experiment with a mix of bread and all purpose. Also, make sure you're letting the dough rise to double its size before trying to work it.

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i definitely noticed that this weekend when i used the KA bread flour. This weekend I think I'll do half all purpose and half bread. I'll also make it early enough in the day so I can let it rise for an hour then punch down and put in the fridge for several hours. Or maybe I'll even do it on saturday, and let it age a day in the fridge.

Should i let the dough warm up to room temp before I try to shape it after it comes out of the fridge?

Use a dough docker to get the dough spread evenly on the pizza stone. cook the pizza dough some before adding anything to it. Then add the sauce and toppings and cook again.

Dextersmom said:

Should i let the dough warm up to room temp before I try to shape it after it comes out of the fridge?

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Let the dough rest about 30 minutes after pulling it out of the fridge.

Weizenheimer said:

Use a dough docker to get the dough spread evenly on the pizza stone. cook the pizza dough some before adding anything to it. Then add the sauce and toppings and cook again.

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There is no reason to cook a pizza dough twice unless your oven is not hot enough or you are putting too many toppings on it.

Thanks to all for the wealth of knowledge!

avaserfi said:

There is no reason to cook a pizza dough twice unless your oven is not hot enough or you are putting too many toppings on it.

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yea, isnt the only time you're usually going to put dough in the oven before you add anything when you're making a sicilian pie?

Opherman47 said:

4. screw the peal unless you have a wood fired oven and go get or order a pizza screen..... the bigger the better..... make sure its a screen not just a circle pan with a bunch of breath holes in it, the screen helps you to stretch out your crust while your still learning to work with dough, and allows the dough full contact with the preheated tiles, giving that great crunch to the outside of the crust.....

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I just picked a pizza screen up yesterday. So I want to shape the crust on the screen then, right?

yah man, waaay easier with the screen than dealing with the peel, shape it right onto the screen the screen will help it stay stretched, if you can the put the screen right ontop of a very hot pizza stone, preheated in the oven, then your ready to rock

Can you freeze pizza dough for later use?

Just had to chime in here. I had no idea that I would spend the time reading 7 pages of how to make Pizza Dough. But it was a good read. Learned a lot, now I'm hungry.

And I thought I was only here for the love of Beer.

CATFISHER74 said:

Can you freeze pizza dough for later use?

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I've frozen dough in the past. What I would do is take a quart size ziploc and spray the inside with non-stick spray. Stick the dough ball in and chuck it in the freezer.

When your going to use it pull it out of the freezer into the fridge to thaw. I don't remember exactly how long it used to take, maybe 8-12 hours? About an hour or two before I was going to roll it out I would pull it from the fridge to warm up.

CATFISHER74 said:

Can you freeze pizza dough for later use?

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I freeze it every week, per my previous post. I just put it in a tupperware container and on the day I want to eat it, I'll take it out of the freezer a few hours ahead of time to let it thaw. Seems to work fine.

Boo boo has already posted a link, but it bears repeating. PizzaMaking.com could be considered a HBT for pizza. Tons of people, ideas, recipes, techniques, etc., all about pizza.

My pizza game has stepped up significantly since finding this site.

Pizza Making Forum - Index

ok, ill be the first.
unacceptable!

Amazon.com: Good Cook Pizza Stone: Home & Garden

this is cheap!
it is the stone i have. you DO NOT need a peel. use a cutting board, with corn meal/flour on it, you can slide your dough right on the stone. getting the pizza back onto the cutting board is simple when the pie is done, i use a fork, and slide it right on.
my oven will only allow a max of 500*.
i set it on max broil for 30 mins, then convect bake 500* which gets the over over 700 to start with.... pizza is done in minutes.

best thing i learned, let your dough season overnight. it really does make a flavor difference.


good luck!

Update:
Took suggestions! Got a stone and a peel in addition to the suggested dough tweaks recommended and my last pie was fabulous!

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

As an alternative to the stone I use a layer of unglazed quarry tile laid across one of my oven racks set in the absolute lowest position. I bake all my bread on the tile and while we don't make homemade pizza that often I've done it before and it turns out great. Plus, I've noticed that since adding the tile, my oven cooks more evenly. You do have to pre-heat the oven for a good bit longer than before but that's a small price in my book.

Turkeyfoot Jr. said:

As an alternative to the stone I use a layer of unglazed quarry tile laid across one of my oven racks set in the absolute lowest position. I bake all my bread on the tile and while we don't make homemade pizza that often I've done it before and it turns out great. Plus, I've noticed that since adding the tile, my oven cooks more evenly. You do have to pre-heat the oven for a good bit longer than before but that's a small price in my book.

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where did you pick that up? I was thinking about something along those lines because I feel like I want more space. My stone although the largest diameter available is not quite as big as i'd like, and I've doing a lot more bread baking as well so i'd like to have something like you've mentioned.

This is an awesome thread. I have gone on this quest for pizza as well...and I found this site: Jeff Varasano's NY Pizza Recipe It will blow your hair back.....awesome information...some of which has already been discussed.....it totally makes me want to go get an electrolux mixer!

FWIW - This thread help solve the daily "what do you want for dinner. I don't know, what do you want...", for today anyway. I pulled some frozen pizza dough balls from the fridge and defrosted homemade sauce.
SWMBO had mozz, feta and gruyere while I had mozz., parm and sausage. YUM!

In my local grocery stores they have wheat gluten in the hippie section. 1tbs/cup of flour provides the perfect elasticity for pizza. Another tip is to brush the crust with olive oil to get that tight, round crunchy-ness.
The key to sauce? Use the best Marziano (sp?) tomatoes that you can get, they have the natural sweetness that you're after. I get them from the local Italian market. Of course the market also has frozen pizza dough balls for $.89/pc. It's pretty good, might not bother with the perfect dough recipe.....

Here's the sauce recipe that I use:
1 (28 Ounce) can Marziano sweet plum tomatoes
3 tablespoons grated Parmesan cheese
3 teaspoons minced garlic
2 tablespoons honey
1 teaspoon anchovy paste
3/4 teaspoon onion powder
1/4 teaspoon dried oregano
1/4 teaspoon dried marjoram
1/4 teaspoon dried basil
1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/8 teaspoon cayenne pepper
1/8 teaspoon dried red pepper flakes

damn...another question i've been forgetting to ask. after you've let the dough rise over night in the fridge, when i'm ready do use it should i be kneeding it again before "pushing it out" or will that ruin the elasticity?

Dextersmom said:

where did you pick that up? I was thinking about something along those lines because I feel like I want more space. My stone although the largest diameter available is not quite as big as i'd like, and I've doing a lot more bread baking as well so i'd like to have something like you've mentioned.

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I found mine at a local company that specializes in kitchen remodeling. I checked Home Depot and Lowes but they didn't have what I was looking for. The key is to make sure they are unglazed, the glazes used on them can contain lead. I bought 15 or so for around $1 a piece I think. 12 cover the oven rack leaving some gap around the edge for circulation and the rest are backups in case one breaks.

There is another alternative if you have the money to spend. When I contacted this company and mentioned what I was looking for they said they've sold custom cut pieces of soapstone to local restaurants for their pizza ovens. For roughly $75 they would have cut a piece to my measurements. I will probably look at doing this some day but in the meantime the tiles work great.

awesome I might look into that! thanks for the heads up!

ok.
i make Pizza for a living.

If you want a kickass, no-fail dough recipe let me know.
I will make one for ya.

It won't be the recipe for where I work, since it is proprietary... but it will be as close as I can get.

if there is interest let me know.

thataintchicken said:

ok.
i make Pizza for a living.

If you want a kickass, no-fail dough recipe let me know.
I will make one for ya.

It won't be the recipe for where I work, since it is proprietary... but it will be as close as I can get.

if there is interest let me know.

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Definitely interested!
Thanks

thataintchicken said:

ok.
if there is interest let me know.

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Yes, please!

thataintchicken said:

if there is interest let me know.

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Sign me up.

Alton Browns pizza dough recipe

Add a little wheat flour :rockin:

Made some in the woodstove last night

I would love to make my own pizza, as I owned a pizza chain in the city here for 3 years, but I'm a perfectionist and don't have a good mixer to do the job. The recipe that we used is simple and everyone loved it. Since I don't plan on ever getting back into the business (to much competition I'll give you a scaled down version, from what I remember)

4c HIGH Gluten Flour
1 Pack Fleischmann Yeast,
1 - 2c Water,
2 teaspoons Sugar
.5 Teaspoons Garlic Power (Gives it that extra Kick)
1/4 Cup Oil
1 teaspoon Salt

You will have to adjust the water and flour possibly, but you want to end up with a SMOOTH dough ball going into the fridge or else.

Prepare yeast, mix it all up, Knead ball it up, and cold store for 24 hours. When your ready to use it just pull it out of the fridge roll it out and let it sit for about 30 minutes so it warms up, get a fork poke some holes in it so it doesn't bubble up while cooking and add toppings. Instant tasty pizza.