Help with hard cider!

Sorry i am new at this..I'm coming from 5 gallon and mr.beer batches and my swmbo wants some hard cider to offset all the insane beer that's been being produced. I am leaving for a trip for a few days and wanted to start on this before I left. Can someone give me the quick and dirty on what ingredients to buy, and if the process would be the same for beer brewing minus the boiling and the wort chilling etc? Me (and swmbo) would be grateful!

Forget to mention, I am using the mr. Beer kit so my batch will only be about 2 gallons.

This recipe is a good one to start off with: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/grahams-english-cider-107152/

Just scale it down to 2.5 gal then pitch 2 gal of it (would be easier than trying to directly scale to 2 gal, but do that if you like). I have a keg of this on tap currently and it's delicious.

I will try that one, thanks for the recipe! Today I simply did

2 gal. Apple cider (natural, obviously)
2 cups dark brown sugar
2 oz. Peach extract
1/2 packet Lalvin K1-1115 wine yeast

Just kind of heated it up a bit, mixed everything together and pitched at around 80 (high as hell I know, but it wouldnt cool quickly enough for my liking and behaved differently than beers I've brewed. It is an experiment and it's currently in my basement at around 55f.

So far I'm amazed. This stuff seems like it can be as simple or complex as you want to make it. Love it.
Got a OG reading of 1.042. Tasty from the sample vial, Think it will turn out ok?

That sounds like a lot of peach extract to me, but I am used to some pretty strong extracts so I'm not totally sure.

jscholtes said:

That sounds like a lot of peach extract to me, but I am used to some pretty strong extracts so I'm not totally sure.

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Don't really know honestly. I do know that it's just about correct for a 2.13 gallon batch of beer, so I just followed that whole idea, haha! I don't pretend to know what I'm doing. Just making semi-educated guesses.

I'm real confused about how to back sweeten and carbonate my batch when it comes time. I don't want to use stevia or splenda unless I really have to, and I'm also not sure how/when/how much to add... Can someone shed some light in a newbie's world?

If you're bottling, you can't really carbonate and backsweeten.

Gremlyn, I bottle my cider, and I both carbonate and backsweeten it. It tastes awesome with great carbonation. I use raw honey as my priming sugar, and backsweeten with 1 tbsp/qt of stevia at the same time.
I used to hunt quite a bit with my dad, and we almost always used handloads. Our beagle was a great rabbit dog, and she slept in the house with my sister. One day we were hunting with a friend of my uncle. After a very successful morning, he was talking about how well our hound hunted and said, "No house dog ever made a good hunting dog." My dad quickly set him to rights. Then this guy states that handloads couldn't kill anything. My dad says,"I got to get home!" the guy says, "Why?" Dad says, "I've got to let all the game that was killed with handloads out of the freezer." this guy wouldn't talk to us after this, and we didn't care.
Alright, rant over. Sorry I got a little exercised there. Good luck with your brewing.

Gremlyn1 said:

If you're bottling, you can't really carbonate and backsweeten.

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So I either make still cider (which doesnt have any carbonation or sweetness to it) or kill the yeast and sweeten it at the end?

Without forced carbonation, those are your only two options I'm afraid.

how do I kill off the yeast after primary fermentation is over? sorry for all the noob questions. this is completely different than beer!

Darklordenron said:

how do I kill off the yeast after primary fermentation is over? sorry for all the noob questions. this is completely different than beer!

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You can naturally carb and sweeten with a non-fermentable sugar if in not mistaken.

Also theres a cool thread around here somewhere where it describes pasteurizing cider by heating the bottles in a hot water bath. I'd check that out

So pasteurizing simply kills the yeast? I wont get sick from drinking this stuff without pasteurizing will I? Durrr...

Pasteurising will kill the yeast, but it'll also boil off a bunch of your alcohol content if you're not very careful. It also means you have to mess with transferring to boil kettle and back again without getting too much oxygen incorporated. The easier way would be campden tablets.

The best resource I've found for beginning cider makers is www.makinghardcider.com, including dealing with the riddle of how to make carbonated, semi-dry, bottle conditioned cider.

Another option is to take a look at the pasteurizing sticky thread, which is what I do.

Wait a tick..I think I just had a mini-revelation..couldn't I simply transfer to secondary, add concentrated apple juice and bottle? That way, it is sweet as well as slightly carbonated? If this is the case, how much do you think I would want to add (fozen, thawed?) for a 2 gallon batch?

Darklordenron said:

Wait a tick..I think I just had a mini-revelation..couldn't I simply transfer to secondary, add concentrated apple juice and bottle? That way, it is sweet as well as slightly carbonated? If this is the case, how much do you think I would want to add (fozen, thawed?) for a 2 gallon batch?

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No, the yeast will eat up all of the new sugars after you bottle, leaving you with either: 1) bone-dry carbonated cider or 2) a box full of glass shards.

Pappers_ said:

No, the yeast will eat up all of the new sugars after you bottle, leaving you with either: 1) bone-dry carbonated cider or 2) a box full of glass shards.

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This isn't as easy as I originally thought! Can't I just make my cider taste like woodchuck? Man, yeast is a tricky thing..

Darklordenron said:

This isn't as easy as I originally thought! Can't I just make my cider taste like woodchuck? Man, yeast is a tricky thing..

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Right. Its a bit of a riddle. Did you look at the website I suggested above? Its really quite good for beginning cider makers and can help you.

Here's some options:

1) keg your cider

2) backsweeten with a non-fermentable and prime to carbonate

3) wait for the cider to get to 1.010 or so, bottle, wait for it to carbonate and chill (make the yeast go dormant), but you must leave it in the fridge

4) wait for the cider to get to 1.010 or so, bottle, wait for it to carbonate and pasteurize

Pappers_ said:

Right. Its a bit of a riddle. Did you look at the website I suggested above? Its really quite good for beginning cider makers and can help you.

Here's some options:

1) keg your cider

2) backsweeten with a non-fermentable and prime to carbonate

3) wait for the cider to get to 1.010 or so, bottle, wait for it to carbonate and chill (make the yeast go dormant), but you must leave it in the fridge

4) wait for the cider to get to 1.010 or so, bottle, wait for it to carbonate and pasteurize

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Gotcha..it is confusing at first. Is there any math equations to figure how much sweetening I would need or do I simply guess, taste repeat?

For simple, draft-style cider (like Magners or Woodchuck) I use #4 (pasteurizing) and I like it when the gravity is at 1.010. To my tastes, its semi-dry, enough apple flavor, but not really sweet.

If you are looking to backsweeten with a non-fermentable, Jessica's website gives you suggested amounts of the sugar alcohol she recommends.

Pappers_ said:

Right. Its a bit of a riddle. Did you look at the website I suggested above? Its really quite good for beginning cider makers and can help you.

Here's some options:

1) keg your cider

2) backsweeten with a non-fermentable and prime to carbonate

3) wait for the cider to get to 1.010 or so, bottle, wait for it to carbonate and chill (make the yeast go dormant), but you must leave it in the fridge

4) wait for the cider to get to 1.010 or so, bottle, wait for it to carbonate and pasteurize

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That post really needs to be made a sticky. Gotta hand it to several people here that make this place what it is, the only good cider forum.

I do read the email forums archives and like there less newbish nature but find the method of communication antiquated, impersonal, less prone to extended dialogue in both length and time and less fun.

Pappers_ said:

For simple, draft-style cider (like Magners or Woodchuck) I use #4 (pasteurizing) and I like it when the gravity is at 1.010. To my tastes, its semi-dry, enough apple flavor, but not really sweet.

If you are looking to backsweeten with a non-fermentable, Jessica's website gives you suggested amounts of the sugar alcohol she recommends.

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Yes. I now have become enlightened!! I think I completely understand now.
So, I've learned so far that yeast has it's own schedule going on and unlike with beer, you need to work around that to add sweetness if that is your goal. Also, add more fermentables next batch. And I need more tiny 1 gallon carboys or jars!!
Everyone has been extremely helpful, I can't thank you enough! I will report back once this batch is done. I don't expect it to be good, but future ones will be with the knowledge everyone has shared

Good luck. I'm working on my first batch of cider too. I think I'm going to go the stovetop pasteurizing method. My gravity reading was 1.014 from 1.060 yesterday so I hope to bottle soon, maybe tonight.

Rahahb said:

Good luck. I'm working on my first batch of cider too. I think I'm going to go the stovetop pasteurizing method. My gravity reading was 1.014 from 1.060 yesterday so I hope to bottle soon, maybe tonight.

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I would wait a bit longer to be honest. At least two weeks in primary is my general rule.. That would ensure the yeast has a decent chance to flocculate out and clear a bit. I mean, unless you don't mind a cloudy cider? I sure don't, as long as it tastes good!

Darklordenron said:

I would wait a bit longer to be honest. At least two weeks in primary is my general rule.. That would ensure the yeast has a decent chance to flocculate out and clear a bit. I mean, unless you don't mind a cloudy cider? I sure don't, as long as it tastes good!

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I wasn't clear on that. OG = 1.060. I took a reading yesterday and it was 1.014. It's been fermenting since 4/2. I want a naturally sparkling, semi sweet cider without backsweetening.

Ah, gotcha. Sounds like fun, let us know how it is! Oh, and pass your recipe on to me so I can get better

Darklordenron said:

Yes. I now have become enlightened!! I think I completely understand now.
So, I've learned so far that yeast has it's own schedule going on and unlike with beer, you need to work around that to add sweetness if that is your goal. Also, add more fermentables next batch. And I need more tiny 1 gallon carboys or jars!!
Everyone has been extremely helpful, I can't thank you enough! I will report back once this batch is done. I don't expect it to be good, but future ones will be with the knowledge everyone has shared

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See, soon you're going to be a pro at this! It's as fun as it is addictive (who said I have an addictive personality.)

Hello i am looking for some advice . I am in the proses of making a 5gal batch of cider . the juice is store bought 100% juice and is fomenting fine . i want to add oak chips for flavor and i was wondering is i should boil them or put them in whiskery or bourbon for the best flavor? thanks

grumpy121 said:

Hello i am looking for some advice . I am in the proses of making a 5gal batch of cider . the juice is store bought 100% juice and is fomenting fine . i want to add oak chips for flavor and i was wondering is i should boil them or put them in whiskery or bourbon for the best flavor? thanks

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Oak chips and the like are more fitted to wine if I'm not mistaken. I'm not certain how that would turn out, but if you really wanted to, boil them for ten minutes and then add some to the secondary for more flavor extraction. Hard liquor might upset the apple flavor which is why you're making cider instead of..wine?

It's not uncommon to aged cider with oak, happens a lot in England (aged in barrels). Whether you do it with the chips soaked in liquor or not is dependent on your taste...

Darklordenron said:

Oak chips and the like are more fitted to wine if I'm not mistaken. I'm not certain how that would turn out, but if you really wanted to, boil them for ten minutes and then add some to the secondary for more flavor extraction. Hard liquor might upset the apple flavor which is why you're making cider instead of..wine?

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Oak chips work perfectly well with cider. Unless you have a barrel sitting around, oak chips/cubes/spirals are the only way to recreate a really good New England cider....which are awesome.

Oh, sweet. This may have sparked an idea for my next batch..

thank you to all the posters found them helpful thanks again grumpy