Talk to a contest judge this weekend

I noticed one thing about this ocktoberfest Beer and Wine contest i was at - there wasn't many, if any, ocktoberfest beers. I'm not all about the blue ribbons, but the fact is making a good beer that sticks out from the crowd is part of the fun. And if I did well enough i would bring a keg just for everybody to work.

So i asked the judged what he looked for in a solid ocktoberfest beer before i left, because because the guy really knows his stuff.

He said one thing stands out the most - balance between hops and malt, if its really sweet, hops have to balance it out, if its really hoppy, malt has to balance it out. I thanked him, he told me he's looking forward to seeing what i come up with next year

So it starts here - I need a solid all grain recipe for an Oktoberfest, a little bigger taste than a kit, i need some help with some alpha numbers. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

My Brew room is under construction, literally - tonight i'm installing light fixtures and hopefully pulling an old vanity sink out - thats how far i have to go! .... A picture thread on the DIY room is coming soon.

THanks!

Well, here's mine:

8 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 %
8.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 %
1.00 oz Tettnang [5.00 %] (40 min) Hops 15.3 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.60 %] (30 min) Hops 9.6 IBU
1 Pkgs Octoberfest/Marzen Lager (White Labs #WLP820) Yeast-Lager

Measured Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Bitterness: 25.0 IBU
Est Color: 12.0 SRM


I don't know how authentic it is, but it turned out pretty darn good! I made a ginormous starter, and pitched it at 48 degrees. I left it in primary for about 3 weeks, and it didn't need a diacetyl rest. I racked, and lagered it at 34 degrees for about 10 weeks.

Thanks for your reply, if you had to do it again, would you add carapils for more head retention or no?

thanks again.

crawford said:

Thanks for your reply, if you had to do it again, would you add carapils for more head retention or no?

thanks again.

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No, I almost never use carapils.

A full pound of crystal malt probably is inappropriate for an Oktoberfest recipe. Oktoberfests should not have noticeable caramel flavors or aromas, and I would expect Yoop's recipe to have a little more than it should. Toastiness is fine, but not caramel. If there is any caramel, it should come from kettle caramelization, not from crystal malt. Much of the malt depth and complexity should come from the Munich malt and a decoction mash.

That said, much crystal malt finds its way into many Oktoberfests over here because many homebrewers are a bit afraid of decocting (I know you aren't, Yoop!), they just don't want to mess with it, or they equate "rich maltiness" with crystal malt character. Many also think Oktobrefest=sweet & heavy, but that is not the case. Drink a Paulaner or Spaten Oktoberfest, and you'll see what I mean. Those two are malty, fairly rich, and loaded with complex character from Munich malt and decoction.

Of course, if you drink a Sam Adams Oktoberfest, you'd think I just off the last bus from the Moon.

And, finally, I bet Yoop's beer is very, very tasty. With everything I just discussed, I would not be surprised if it did well in competition. I might brew it, just because it looks good.


TL

I tried Flying Dog's Marzen for the first time last night. It had a nice maltiness and toastiness, but not much caramel or crystal flavors, just like Tex just described. It also won a gold at GABF this year.

Never done a decoction but i might have to finally give in and give it a go.

Your comments are definately appreciated.

My latest Marzen/Oktoberfest came out really good...it's very malty that's for sure. I've done decoctions but didn't want to this time so I threw in a 1/4# Melanoidin...which isn't the same thing but helps push it in that direction.

2# Pils
6# Light Munich
2# Vienna
.25# Melanoidin
.25# Caramunich II

Hersbrucker for FWH
Magnum for bittering (~25 IBU total)
Hersbrucker for aroma (not much!)

I used WLP830 German Lager. I probably use the Weihenstephan W34/70 strain (WLP830 or Wyeast 2124) more than any other...but we all have our pet strains and most would work fine imo. Just be aware that the Oktoberfest strains (WLP820/Wyeast 2206) can sometimes get a little fruity when the gravity gets high...but for most O-fests it's great.

Lots of Oktoberfest beers are lighter in color than the style guidelines. I had Hofbrauhaus Oktoberfest this year and it was more golden colored than anything.

TexLaw said:

Many also think Oktobrefest=sweet & heavy, but that is not the case. Drink a Paulaner or Spaten Oktoberfest, and you'll see what I mean. Those two are malty, fairly rich, and loaded with complex character from Munich malt and decoction.

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That's funny, I recently tried Paulaner and thought it tasted like peach syrup, I wanted to pour it over pancakes. It totally scared me away from brewing an Oktoberfest. Maybe i'll have to give it another try.

wildwest450 said:

That's funny, I recently tried Paulaner and thought it tasted like peach syrup, I wanted to pour it over pancakes. It totally scared me away from brewing an Oktoberfest. Maybe i'll have to give it another try.

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I want to pur peach syrup all over your sig pic and jump in the fray.

SpanishCastleAle said:

My latest Marzen/Oktoberfest came out really good...it's very malty that's for sure. I've done decoctions but didn't want to this time so I threw in a 1/4# Melanoidin...which isn't the same thing but helps push it in that direction.

2# Pils
6# Light Munich
2# Vienna
.25# Melanoidin
.25# Caramunich II

Hersbrucker for FWH
Magnum for bittering (~25 IBU total)
Hersbrucker for aroma (not much!)

I used WLP830 German Lager. I probably use the Weihenstephan W34/70 strain (WLP830 or Wyeast 2124) more than any other...but we all have our pet strains and most would work fine imo. Just be aware that the Oktoberfest strains (WLP820/Wyeast 2206) can sometimes get a little fruity when the gravity gets high...but for most O-fests it's great.

Lots of Oktoberfest beers are lighter in color than the style guidelines. I had Hofbrauhaus Oktoberfest this year and it was more golden colored than anything.

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I like your grain bill, except i may just start with a
3.5 Pils,
3.5 Munich,
3.5 viennna.
1lb caramunich, or carapils if if thats all I.

I may just have to brew it a few times to hit the correct Hopp balance.

I think that's too much Caramunich...and Carapils is not a sub for Caramunich (they're quite different). A little Carapils/Carafoam wouldn't be out of place though imo. I think Carapils/Carafoam sometimes get a bad rep as a 'head retention crutch' but they have their place imo. But other than a bit too much Caramunich (imo) I think that grain bill looks mighty tasty.

I bought a 12-er of Spaten to compare and the Spaten is good but I like mine better (and I'm admittedly biased!).

I'm surprised the judge told you there needed to be hoppiness to balance the sweetness. Oktoberfests should have no hop aroma and little to no hop flavor. Here's my recipe, which I really like and feel is very traditional. No crazy specialty grains, just a vienna base with lots of munich and pils malts. Decoction mashed for more complexity. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f59/worlds-best-oktoberfest-123493/

wildwest450 said:

That's funny, I recently tried Paulaner and thought it tasted like peach syrup, I wanted to pour it over pancakes. It totally scared me away from brewing an Oktoberfest. Maybe i'll have to give it another try.

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I think you got some bad stuff, man.

And, Brian, I imagine the judge was talking about bitterness, not hop flavor or aroma.


TL

TexLaw said:

I think you got some bad stuff, man.

And, Brian, I imagine the judge was talking about bitterness, not hop flavor or aroma.


TL

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You're probably right, though it's a pet peeve of mine when people confuse the two, especially a BJCP judge.