KAB6 (banjo) burner, 1st use report/review:

I used my new KAB6 banjo burner (Bayou Classic) yesterday and wanted to report a little information.

I brewed an AG batch, with a grain bill of 10.25lbs, boil duration 60 min, 7gal pre boil. I used the burner & a freshly filled 5 gal propane tank to heat all my mash & sparge water.

Before I started, the tank weighed 40.2lbs. After brewing, the tank weighed 31.4lbs, a difference of 8.8lbs or ~22%.

With that info, I suspect that I can get 3-4 batches from a fresh propane tank, if doing batches with similar grain bills. Larger grain bills or longer boils, both requiring larger volumes of water, would reduce the amount of batches per tank.

I use a flat bottomed 10 gal aluminum pot and I had NO problems using the burner out of the box. I considered modifying the burner before the 1st use (based on some other posts here) but don't feel it is necessary to do this for flat bottomed pots. It was a very calm day, so I didn't have any issues with wind for this brew session.

One brew day folly: As I was heating my 1.5 gals of mash-out water in my boil kettle, I went and stirred my mash. When I looked back to the kettle, the plastic sight glass (on my weldless fitting) had melted and water was now spewing out of the brass fitting. Wow. The power.

Note: This burner delivers an amazing amount of heat to the pot bottom and up the sides. With the small volume of mash-out water I was heating there wasn't enough liquid in my sight glass, so the plastic over heated and melted. Next time, boil small amounts of water in a different pot.

I also had my 1st boilover, due to underestimating the power of this burner. I looked away and over the top it came.

I found the stock 30psi fixed regulator was very adjustable in terms of reducing the heat up & down. I had no problems adjusting the boil to prevent additional boilovers.

When igniting the burner & dialing in the flame I noticed something. If the burner (when igniting) sounds like a loud jet-engine, its not running as efficiently as possible. When I was able to get it dialed right, it sounds like a aggressive "sshhh" sound - and it is actually much quieter than my old turkey fryer burner.. And probably appreciated by my neighbors.

All in all, the upgrade from a turkey fryer burner to this MONSTER is incredible. Without the issue with having to repair my kettle after the sightglass melt, I'd say this burner takes 30-45 minutes off of my brew day, which typically had been 4.5 hours.

I'm very happy with this purchase and if you're looking to upgrade your burner for any reason, I'd say this burner is an obvious choice.

what is the tare weight of your tank? that will help you to better estimate the number of batches worth of propane left.

8lbs of propane, yikes.

Well, the TW on my tanks averages to 18 pounds. Meaning that if they weighed 40 pounds at the start, I have 22 pounds of propane in there, but I dont... (theoretically, see below).

Now, the problem is this... when you take an empty propane tank to get refilled, they only hold about 4.2 gallons of propane, that is all... they do not typically hold 20 pounds as the name suggests. 1 pound of propane is 4.23 pounds, so on a good day a FULL tank will contain less than 18 pounds of actual, useable, propane. This being said, you will get 2 sessions out of your 20lb propane tank if you in fact used 8.8 pounds of propane on one session. But that will be it... Id have 2 tanks on hand.

FWIW, even el cheapo (55K BTU) burners will melt a polycarbonate sight gauge, this is why many brewers are using heat shields under thier burners to protect thier sight guages, ball valves and thermos from the heat. Blichman actually sells really nice SS heat shields as a part of buying one of thier kettles, even though thier sight gauges are glass.

Good idea making some calculations, but 8.8 pounds is over 50% of what those tanks will hold, not 22%.

You used about 194,000 BTUs in that one brewing session (8.8lbs of LP), for a comparison, an electric boil kettle can boil for more than 15 hours with the same BTU output. So much heat is wasted on those gas burners, you maybe able to construct a shield system to help put more BTUs into the kettle and less into the air. This will save you heating time and LP.

15 hours boiling with electric costs $6.60 in energy (depending on your cost/kWh)

15 hours boiling the same volume with propane will cost roughly $26+ (at $16 per tank fill)

One major reason for this is that you need about 3-4x the BTUs from a gas burner as they waste so much heat (melting sight gauges?) to ambient air. A 9000W (30.6K BTU) electric boil kettle will be the equivilent of a 122K BTU burner on a kettle.

Id build a nice, well thought out shroud so that you arent using $8 worth of propane per session.

They are kick arse burners, but be careful, on your next session that tank will be empty... dont get caught without another tank!

I used a banjo for the first time this weekend also so I'll throw in my observations. I did a 10gal batch with about a 14gal preboil volume. I didn't heat the mash water with the banjo, but did heat ~7gal sparge water. It was cold out ~37 and just an occasional wind.

First the good: its MUCH quieter than the old turkey burner, it heats alot faster, the stand is more stable

The bad news. I burned about 8lbs propane on a single batch. Like Pol says, this thing is gonna chew through tanks fast.

All in all I like it, but its certainly not changing my mind about going electric. I kinda feel bad that my buddy got this as a gift from his wife. I'm hoping to not need it within 6months.

Yeah, that is half a tank of propane... here that will cost me $8. That is INCREDIBLE fuel burn. What I have found is that at a certain point, the larger your burner, the more inefficient it is. The more waste there is.

I used to get 4 sessions out of a 55K BTU burner on a keggle, no special shroud, nothing fancy, just a stand. That is about 4-4.5 lbs of propane per session, half the Banjo. While the MAX BTU output of a burner shouldnt matter, because you arent burning at MAX output the entire boil, it seems to.

My old cast iron $10 55K BTU burner would maintain a rolling boil while set just above idle in an 8 gallon volume. It would very reliably boil 4 batches per tank, and I would accept that at the time.

I cannot imagine burning 8-9 POUNDS of LP per session, that is insane fuel flow.

Electric is faster, quieter and more eff. than gas burners, and this is why it is gaining in popularity, along with the ability to brew indoors. If you are using gas, build a shroud, that is all I can offer, try to box that heat in.

For me, the thought of electric boiling is intriguing. The electric fear part that strikes a lot of people doesn't really deter me, its just that I don't have convienient 220v power where I brew. I mean, I could add a breaker to my panel and conduit & an outlet. Build a 220v extension, with a kill switch, buy the element and I'd be set. For some reason though I'm deterred by the effort to do that.

I do have a couple of dedicated 20a outlets near where I brew, so I could use 2 2000w elements, but I have questions: with 2 heatsticks in the pot, how do you add your immersion chiller? Can it sit atop the elements? How do I add my hop spider? Would the hop bag burn if it contacts the elements? It seems that with 2, 2k heatsticks in the pot it would get crowded real quick.

On the other hand, when I bought the banjo burner I was looking for a way to shave time off my brew day. It was apparent that most of the "idle time" for me (besides mashing & boiling) was spent waiting for liquid to get to temp. The burner totally speeds things up.

The $8 of propane doesn't bother me either, especially considering the time saved. If I use harvested yeast, that cost is negated. I fill my tank 5 blocks from my home so that is convienient too.

I realize that this is a hobby, and I do this for the enjoyment of the process. But I don't receive the enjoyment standing around waiting for water to boil, so the faster the better. If that costs me 8 bucks - so be it.

If 240VAC was available, it is easy to get 13 gallons from 60F to a boil in about 35 minutes. To get from sparge temps. to a boil is 10 minutes or less.

Electric heat is hella fast, except there is that need for 240VAC, without it, gas is in most cases the best option, yes.

I would be interested in someone doing a BTU test on the Banjo. If anyone is willing:

Get a measured qty of water, in pounds, and place it in your kettle. Measure the starting temp. Fire the burner to 100% power and measure the time to heat to boiling. Give me those temps. and times and we can figure out the utilized BTUs of the burner. Not the output, but what you are getting into the kettle.

I am trying to figure out why larger burners waste more heat than smaller burners and to what degree.

The Pol said:

If 240VAC was available, it is easy to get 13 gallons from 60F to a boil in about 35 minutes. To get from sparge temps. to a boil is 10 minutes or less.

Electric heat is hella fast, except there is that need for 240VAC, without it, gas is in most cases the best option, yes.

I would be interested in someone doing a BTU test on the Banjo. If anyone is willing:

Get a measured qty of water, in pounds, and place it in your kettle. Measure the starting temp. Fire the burner to 100% power and measure the time to heat to boiling. Give me those temps. and times and we can figure out the utilized BTUs of the burner. Not the output, but what you are getting into the kettle.

I am trying to figure out why larger burners waste more heat than smaller burners and to what degree.

Click to expand...

I plan to do exactly that soon. Was going to do it before the last brew session, but we got started brewing late as it was. I plan to test my old turkey burner and the new banjo from tap temp (measured) to boiling with 1gal of water using the same pot.

1gal of water from 49F to boiling in 5min 10sec

This thread started as a review for the banjo, how did it turn into an electric vs lp debate?

dragon99 said:

1gal of water from 49F to boiling in 5min 10sec

Click to expand...

SO, the Banjo kicks out 17K BTUs to the kettle... wow

Build a shroud, and test it again if you like, you can see the massive BTU loss in this example.

Encasing the flame will make a huge difference. I'm looking forward to see the difference I get from my burners with the way the shroud and pot grate have been fabricated. I used to lose sooo much heat with my last stand. It wouldn't surprise me to see a 50% increase in efficency with a correct shroud set-up. Never used the Banjo, but if you don't have it encased you will never get the max from any burner. I've thought about the melting of the sight tube. Better have a plug on hand.

I've also found my keggle isn't nearly as efficient as my polarware kettle. I do think there is an advantage to using kettles because, mine at least, boils much faster than my keggle. I have also noticed in my tests that burner distance to the vessle makes a huge difference. I had my burners too close to the vessle and it was costing me big time.

D House Brew - keep in mind I suspect the sight glass melted because of the low volume of water I had in my kettle. I was only heating 1.5 gals of water for Mash-Out -this amount only filled my sight glass about 3/8". With more liquid in the pot/glass, I doubt it would've melted. In science class as a kid, we used to boil water in paper dixie cups over bunson burners - once the water evaporated, poof, there goes the cup up in flames. Kinda the same idea as my sight glass.

Since the discussion of the lack of efficiency has come up, I've done two things: 1) ordered a wider 16" kettle that will take up the entire width of the burner stand & 2) Cut a piece of 16" diameter ducting tube 11.5" high, with a cutout for the propane intake & lighting hole. This 16" x 11.5" tube fits perfectly around the burner stand & slides to ground level, leaving 1/2" between the pot and shroud. When I receive my new megapot, I'll do a test vs my old turky fryer without a shroud.

In the mean time, I'm also building a 2k heat stick so I can pre-heat some of my mash water as well as heat the 1st runnings while I'm pulling my 2nd runnings. This will reduce the amount of propane I use in general.

The Pol said:

SO, the Banjo kicks out 17K BTUs to the kettle... wow

Build a shroud, and test it again if you like, you can see the massive BTU loss in this example.

Click to expand...

Well, not really. We get 17K BTUs staying in the kettle. Theres really no way to measure the loss due lack of insulation, etc. Too many variables.

But the point stands: wicked inefficient.

I'm interested to see the difference you get with your improvements. Good idea about the heat stick. I'm looking forward to my tests also. I should be brewing next weekend with a complete brew stand.

what equation are you using to figure out the efficiency here? I would like to test out my equipment also.
looking at my natural gas bill, they measure my usage in CCF. my tiny pea brain is not going to like this equation.

My buddy just got one of these new burners and we have had issues with the regulator. We have been brewing on some really cold days (0 degrees - 20 degrees F) and the regulator seems to freeze up. Once this happens it doesn't matter how much you open the regulator the flame is really weak.

We contacted the supplier and they have mailed a new regulator to him. We'll see how that one works.

We have also been thinking about building a wind shield but after reading this it sounds like it should be a shroud first and a windshield second.

shoebag22 said:

what equation are you using to figure out the efficiency here? I would like to test out my equipment also.
looking at my natural gas bill, they measure my usage in CCF. my tiny pea brain is not going to like this equation.

Click to expand...

Don't know the "equation" per se, but here's how he got there:
1gal water = 8.34 lb
1btu = 1F rise in temp for 1lb of water
212 - 49F = 163F (change in temp from starting to boil)
5min10sec = 0.0847222222222222 hr

so 8.34lb*163F/0.0847222222222222hr = 16045 btu/hr

Took the ol turkey burner for a spin to get something to compare the banjo numbers to. It took 7min2sec to go from 69F to 212F. So turkey burner comes in at 3059 btu/hr. Weak!

And as Synovia pointed out, this is heat into the kettle, not necessarily the heat output of the unit.

Also an observation. The banjo burner starting boiling from the outside of the pot inward indicating that alot of its heat output is coming around the outside of the pot. The turkey burner started boiling in the center and worked out.

I dont think anyone will argue, obviously this is the BTUs making it into the kettle, not the burner output, thusly the talk about trying to increase the eff. of that heat transfer.

If a heating source is submerged in the wort, you will see about 90% eff. in a keggle for instance, indicating a loss of about 10% to ambient heat loss. So, you arent really losing much of the eff. of one of these burners to heat loss through the kettle itself, maybe 10%, the other 65% loss is just not being transferred.

If anyone runs a test with a shroud with some improvement #s, you would serve the community well if you started a thread for those not wanting to go electric but who are looking to reduce thier gas useage.

Getting 4 brews instead of 2 brews from a tank would be huge, or 8 brews instead of 4!

You really only need to get 50% heat transfer to halve your gas useage. The NG guys may not care, but the LP fellas would be interested, I know I would have been back when I used the 55K turkey fryer!

It has been a few months since the last post...but I just got my KAB6 and used it for the first time last weekend. I can confirm that it is a major propane hog. I had it fairly low and running clean, and I used an estimated half tank of propane. I will needless to say be making several modifications to improve the efficiency and report back once completed and tested. If I can squeeze 4 batches from one tank, I will take it. Used to get 5 on a tank using a much smaller burner, but with my change to a keggle it couldn't support the size of it causing me to change.

My buddy and I took a 12 inch wide strip of sheetmetal and wrapped it around the burner and attached it to the legs with U bolts. We left a section about 5 inches wide open for the burner to stick out and we mounted it so it came about 3 inches up the keggle.

I used it this past sunday for a 12 gallon batch and man was it awesome. Once I had a boil (which was not hard to get) I could turn the burner way down. it also blocked all of the wind which let us just set the flame and not worry too much about it.

Previously we had issues with my siteglass spitting wort all over the place because there was so much heat coming up the side that it was boiling in the elbow. With this heat/wind shield I didn't have that problem. I highly recomment it.

Made a wind screen with this last weekend. Worked great.

http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


Here are some fine, high quality pics. It's held together with duct tape for the trail run. The plan is to use sheet metal screws.

Like the sheetmetal windscreen option better than cutting and re-welding. Got any pictures of the modification?

BadgerBrewer said:

Like the sheetmetal windscreen option better than cutting and re-welding. Got any pictures of the modification?

Click to expand...

Not yet but I can get some. I'll try to get some tomorrow.

Alright here are some pictures of what I did. My buddy got this sheet metal for free at work and we just went to Lowes for the U bolts and some washers for spacers.

We mentioned trying to paint it so it's a little prettier but that hasn't happened yet. I kind of like how it looks now since it looks like something out of Mad Max.

[url=https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=36855] [/URL]

Thank you for this thread. I am in the process of going all grain and this gave me some great things to think about...like heat source and amount of wattage/gas I'd need.

Nicely done MgMt! That mod should keep the heat straight on the bottom of the keggle versus wasting it by shooting up the sides and off into space. I know HD/Lowes sells stuff like that pretty cheap so I will make my mod this week and see how it changes the efficiency. I can always resort to cutting the stand and re-welding but this looks like it might work better.

Here's a pic of my windscreen, it helps a lot:

I'm not sure how to add a link to another thread, but if you search the DIY forum for a thread I started called "Shround/Windscreen for KAB6..", I added some info on boil times.