Help me clone Victory Hop Ranch

Tried the new IIPA from Victory last week and fell in love with it. I want to try to clone it. I know from their website the main hops are Mosaic and Azaca and the main malt is a Pilsner malt. Having never worked with Pilsner malt in an IPA I'm not really sure what this recipe should look like. I'm sure there are some other malts in it (but maybe not since the color is so light). Victory's version is 9% ABV. Just wondering if anyone with a better palette than me has tried it and picked up anything else that may help me get close?

I am pretty sure that beer is just all pilsner malt, they would list other malts on the site if it had them. So I assume you would basically just make a pilsner but then hop it like an IPA. And I would guess you would use a ale yeast since Victory does not call it a IPL.

You could always email the brewery, they would not give you a full recipe, but they might tell you the yeast, mash temps (assuming you are all grain), etc. I emailed a small brewery in NC about one of their beers they had at a beer fest and the owner wound up sending me his homebrew recipe.

Here's what I'm going to try. I added the wheat for the head it provides..... I always add a little wheat to my IPA's and I think it would go well with this one. Almost like a habit at this point.

I use brewtoad and it calculates this recipe at 75% eff for a 5.5g batch to be about 9% ABV and 64IBU.

Grain Bill

16lb German Pilsner
1lb Wheat


Hops
.75 Azacca 60 min
.5 Mosaic 60 min

.5 Azacca 15 min
.5 Mosaic 15 min

.5 Azacca 5 min
.5 Mosaic 5 min

.5 Azacca 0 min
.5 Mosaic 0 min

.75 Azacca Dry Hop
1 Mosaic Dry Hop



Planning to use WLP 001 mainly because I have it in my stockpile but if anyone has a better suggestion on the yeast for this beer let me know.

Luckily I found these hops but only in 1oz quantities.

Snicklefritz said:

Here's what I'm going to try. I added the wheat for the head it provides..... I always add a little wheat to my IPA's and I think it would go well with this one. Almost like a habit at this point.

I use brewtoad and it calculates this recipe at 75% eff for a 5.5g batch to be about 9% ABV and 64IBU.

Grain Bill

16lb German Pilsner
1lb Wheat


Hops
.75 Azacca 60 min
.5 Mosaic 60 min

.5 Azacca 15 min
.5 Mosaic 15 min

.5 Azacca 5 min
.5 Mosaic 5 min

.5 Azacca 0 min
.5 Mosaic 0 min

.75 Azacca Dry Hop
1 Mosaic Dry Hop



Planning to use WLP 001 mainly because I have it in my stockpile but if anyone has a better suggestion on the yeast for this beer let me know.

Luckily I found these hops but only in 1oz quantities.

Click to expand...

I too, love this beer. It's a monster, I would think you'd have to add at least twice as many hops as that for late additions and dry hop.

I think the IBUs are around 80, too. I bet they use a hopshot at the start of the boil and save everything else for the end. I bet adding some during a hopstand would pick up a lot more flavor and aroma.

Snicklefritz said:

Here's what I'm going to try. I added the wheat for the head it provides..... I always add a little wheat to my IPA's and I think it would go well with this one. Almost like a habit at this point.

I use brewtoad and it calculates this recipe at 75% eff for a 5.5g batch to be about 9% ABV and 64IBU.

Grain Bill

16lb German Pilsner
1lb Wheat


Hops
.75 Azacca 60 min
.5 Mosaic 60 min

.5 Azacca 15 min
.5 Mosaic 15 min

.5 Azacca 5 min
.5 Mosaic 5 min

.5 Azacca 0 min
.5 Mosaic 0 min

.75 Azacca Dry Hop
1 Mosaic Dry Hop



Planning to use WLP 001 mainly because I have it in my stockpile but if anyone has a better suggestion on the yeast for this beer let me know.

Luckily I found these hops but only in 1oz quantities.

Click to expand...

I would move all the late hops to the very end of the boil and double them. The dry hop should be tripled at least.

ddicker60 said:

I think the IBUs are around 80, too. I bet they use a hopshot at the start of the boil and save everything else for the end. I bet adding some during a hopstand would pick up a lot more flavor and aroma.

Click to expand...

I read somewhere that the IBUs for this is 60. It's not a very bitter ipa at all. You are probably right about the hop shot... saves the expensive stuff for when it matters

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ddicker60 said:

I think the IBUs are around 80, too. I bet they use a hopshot at the start of the boil and save everything else for the end. I bet adding some during a hopstand would pick up a lot more flavor and aroma.

Click to expand...

I agree. If I were to take a shot at this beer, I would probably use something clean for my bittering addition and then add 1oz of each at 5 minutes, 2oz of each hop for a 30 minute hop stand, then dry hop with 2oz of each. It tastes pretty dry to me, so I'd mash low for fermentability.

Does no one else get onion flavor from this beer? I picked up two bottles and it was tough to make it through either.

I did not pickup any onion. It is a bit weird at first but the taste grew on me (a case will do that to you)

pegasus_brew said:

I agree. If I were to take a shot at this beer, I would probably use something clean for my bittering addition and then add 1oz of each at 5 minutes, 2oz of each hop for a 30 minute hop stand, then dry hop with 2oz of each. It tastes pretty dry to me, so I'd mash low for fermentability.

Click to expand...

When you say mash low what are you thinking .... like 148-150ish?

Also need to boil for 90min since using pilsner?

This beer taste and looks like a NZ hopped ipa I made last summer. Interesting if all they used was pils

This is a great beer, so I look forward to seeing how the clone progresses. Here's my two cents -

I can't speak much to the grain bill but I'd say you need a LOT more hops in this thing. I'd say 3-4 oz for both the flameout and dryhop additions - plus your bittering and 30/15 additions. The beer has a pretty massive hop flavor and aroma, not to mention that at 9% it's got a huge malt backbone to compete with. If it were me, I'd plan on using at least 10oz of hops for a 5 gallon batch of a beer like that.

Again, just my quick thoughts - I'm certainly no expert on cloning Victory's beers. Good luck with the brew and keep us updated on the progress.

NathPowe said:

This is a great beer, so I look forward to seeing how the clone progresses. Here's my two cents -

I can't speak much to the grain bill but I'd say you need a LOT more hops in this thing. I'd say 3-4 oz for both the flameout and dryhop additions - plus your bittering and 30/15 additions. The beer has a pretty massive hop flavor and aroma, not to mention that at 9% it's got a huge malt backbone to compete with. If it were me, I'd plan on using at least 10oz of hops for a 5 gallon batch of a beer like that.

Again, just my quick thoughts - I'm certainly no expert on cloning Victory's beers. Good luck with the brew and keep us updated on the progress.

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I agree. Changing the hop schedule to this:

60 MIN 6mL HopShot
5 MIN 1oz Azacca
5 MIN 1oz Mosaic
0 MIN 2oz Azacca (30-60 minute hop stand)
0 MIN 2oz Mosaic (30-60 minute hop stand)

2oz Azacca Dry Hop
2oz Mosaic Dry Hop

Total of 10oz of hops now..... IBUs should be around 60-70 still. For the hop stand I may add 1 oz of each at flameout and then add another ounce of each about 20 minutes after flameout rather than adding all 4ozs at once.

I am planning to do a 90 minute boil but not adding any hops until the 60min mark.

Starting to shape up?

Snicklefritz said:

I agree. Changing the hop schedule to this:

60 MIN 6mL HopShot
5 MIN 1oz Azacca
5 MIN 1oz Mosaic
0 MIN 2oz Azacca (30-60 minute hop stand)
0 MIN 2oz Mosaic (30-60 minute hop stand)

2oz Azacca Dry Hop
2oz Mosaic Dry Hop

Total of 10oz of hops now..... IBUs should be around 60-70 still. For the hop stand I may add 1 oz of each at flameout and then add another ounce of each about 20 minutes after flameout rather than adding all 4ozs at once.

I am planning to do a 90 minute boil but not adding any hops until the 60min mark.

Starting to shape up?

Click to expand...

Looks tasty as hell to me. Personally I like 15 minute additions in combination with massive whirlpool/hopstand additions for my IPA's, so I'd probably move the 5min addition to 15min. It'll give you a little boost in IBU's, which I don't think will hurt this recipe. Either way you go, I'd say that after brewing this you're going to have a) an amazing beer, and b) a solid start on cloning the hop ranch.

Cheers man and enjoy the brew.

I had this beer on tap at a local pub and loved it. I would have sworn it was finished with Citra, but I guess that's what Azaca brings to the table. You can smell the hops from down the block, so I'd use as much as you can afford as dry hop additions.

The problem I am having is even finding Azacca in quantities larger than 1oz packages. If I could find a pound of them somewhere I'd probably up the hops to 8oz of each rather than 5oz but having to pay $2.99/oz I'd be looking at over $45 just for hops. Anyone have a hookup that I may be missing?

Snicklefritz said:

The problem I am having is even finding Azacca in quantities larger than 1oz packages. If I could find a pound of them somewhere I'd probably up the hops to 8oz of each rather than 5oz but having to pay $2.99/oz I'd be looking at over $45 just for hops. Anyone have a hookup that I may be missing?

Click to expand...

I ordered a pound earlier today from Yakima Valley Hops for $17, but it looks like they're sold out as of right now. http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/product_p/hopsadhaazacca1.htm

The description sounds awesome: fresh citrus, orange, grapefruit, lemon, piney, spicy, pineapple, full, tropical fruit; fresh

Chug said:

I ordered a pound earlier today from Yakima Valley Hops for $17, but it looks like they're sold out as of right now. http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/product_p/hopsadhaazacca1.htm

The description sounds awesome: fresh citrus, orange, grapefruit, lemon, piney, spicy, pineapple, full, tropical fruit; fresh

Click to expand...

Damn. I just checked there for them yesterday. They must have added them and sold out today. Sent them an email asking if they were going to re-stock them.

Purchased mostly everything so far. Bought a lb of Mosaic and the hop shots from yakima valley last night. Going to stop at my LHBS today to get the grain. Still trying to find somewhere to get Azacca in any quantities other than by the oz.

Chug, any chance you'd want to sell me 1/2 of yours?

Snicklefritz said:

When you say mash low what are you thinking .... like 148-150ish?

Click to expand...

That's a good range. I would mash at 148 for 90 minutes. It'll help you ferment nice and dry so that you don't have too much residual sweetness to compete with the hop flavor.

With pilsner malt should I do a step mash? Maybe something like this...

- 15 Minutes at 113F (Acid Rest)
- 15 Minutes at 140F (Protein Rest)
- 60 Minutes at 150F (Saccrification)
- 10 Minutes at 168F (Mash Out)


Or am I simply over complicating things because I have a system capable of step mashes now?

Just ordered 8oz of Azacca from Great Fermentations. Contacted them through PM here on the board and they offered to discount 10% if I purchased 8 oz so I only ended up paying $2/oz. Still would have rather bought a lb from yakima for the same price but hey beggers can't be choosers AND they really didn't need to discount me anything considering supply/demand on this hop. They actually made the discount live on their site so if any of you are looking for Azacca that's about the cheapest option we have right now.

So when I plug all of this into BeerSmith its estimating the IBUs to be 126. Since this beer should be around 60, I think some tweaking is required. Now, 59IBU of that 126 is from the 30 minute hop stand. How accurate would you say that is? Based on that I wouldn't even need to add any hop extract at the 60 minute mark and still end up with 67IBU. However, I've never made a beer without a 60 minute bittering addition so I'm skeptical. Any advice?

Snicklefritz said:

So when I plug all of this into BeerSmith its estimating the IBUs to be 126. Since this beer should be around 60, I think some tweaking is required. Now, 59IBU of that 126 is from the 30 minute hop stand. How accurate would you say that is? Based on that I wouldn't even need to add any hop extract at the 60 minute mark and still end up with 67IBU. However, I've never made a beer without a 60 minute bittering addition so I'm skeptical. Any advice?

Click to expand...

Personally, I would just roll with it. Most people chill to below 180 and then do their hop stand, and if I remember correctly, beersmith is calculating it at a higher temperature where you would still see some isomerization.

If they test after fermentation that sounds almost right, as fermentation takes almost half of the bitterness away. Or only shoot for 20 ibus with the hop shot. The Heady Topper Clone on BYO says only go for around 12 ibus with the hop shot/Magnum

Snicklefritz said:

So when I plug all of this into BeerSmith its estimating the IBUs to be 126. Since this beer should be around 60, I think some tweaking is required. Now, 59IBU of that 126 is from the 30 minute hop stand. How accurate would you say that is? Based on that I wouldn't even need to add any hop extract at the 60 minute mark and still end up with 67IBU. However, I've never made a beer without a 60 minute bittering addition so I'm skeptical. Any advice?

Click to expand...

When you say you plugged it all into Beersmith, do you mean the hop schedule you posted in post #15? If so I'd just let it ride. That schedule does not look like one that is going to be too bitter for a beer with such a high OG, despite the software's IBU estimates.

Just my two cents. Make sure you post a brew day update when you tackle this bad boy.

tagz said:

Does no one else get onion flavor from this beer? I picked up two bottles and it was tough to make it through either.

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Definitely get onion in the aroma, but I did not notice in the flavor. It's more of a tropical fruit flavor to me. But the aroma is a little tough to get past, but once you do, it's a great beer.

jdauria said:

Definitely get onion in the aroma, but I did not notice in the flavor. It's more of a tropical fruit flavor to me. But the aroma is a little tough to get past, but once you do, it's a great beer.

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Interesting. I believe it was mostly in aroma for me as well. If anyone brews with the azacca, I'd be interested to hear the results.

Is Azacca a trade name for Citra? I've heard complaints about this year's Citra crops having onion/garlic aroma too. I have a pound in the freezer but haven't opened it yet.

masonsjax said:

Is Azacca a trade name for Citra? I've heard complaints about this year's Citra crops having onion/garlic aroma too. I have a pound in the freezer but haven't opened it yet.

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I don't believe they are related. Azacca was an experimental variety that was just released last year. But then again anything is possible.

I picked up the pilsner from my LHBS and the last of my hops arrived today so I think this is going to happen on Friday or Saturday. Decided to use WLP007 (because I have some) and will be making a 2L starter. Because I have 8oz each of Azacca and Mosaic I may just crazy when it comes to hop stand/dry hop time..... some extra hops may just fall in. If I do, I'll post accordingly. I'll be sure to post some pics on brew day too.

Nice dude. What's your target OG and FG for this beer? If it were me I might even bump it up to a 2.5L or 3L starter, and I'd blast it with about 90 seconds of O2 before pitching. Seemed like a pretty dry beer when I had it last, and I'd to hate to see you have attenuation issues after all the effort and $ you've thrown down. As always - just my thoughts. Obviously you know your system better than I do.

Looking forward to the updates. Good luck.

I got my starter going for this batch last night and I had my first ever starter blowout when I checked on it this morning! I guess I have some healthy yeast there. Brewing either tonight or tomorrow' Probably tomorrow or my wife will kill me for brewing on Valentine's Day.

Any update on how this went? I'm planning on brewing this in two weeks, so the pre-pro has begun...

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I brewed this on Saturday and missed my numbers a bit. Was shooting for 1.085 but hit 1.078 mainly due to too much water. Only my 3rd brew on my new electric system and I am still dialing things in. I can tell you that the hop stand smells ABSOLUTELY fantastic. I've never done one before and will probably be doing them from now on with IPAs. I upped the hop stand hops to 3 oz's of each because I had extras. So I dumped in 1.5 oz's of each right at boil out.... 15 minutes later the wort was already down to 176 (brew in my garage and it was cold) so I set my controller to hold temps at 175 and dumped in another 1.5 oz's of each hop and recirculated for another 30 minutes. The intense hop aroma in my garage was incredible. I will be dry hopping with another 2 oz of each in a week or so.

There hasn't been too much talk about the yeast used in Hop Ranch. I was wondering what would be be the best yeast candidate?

I really couldn't find too much in that area either. I had WLP001 and WLP007 in my stockpile and went with the 007. I'm sure either would have worked fine.

masonsjax said:

Is Azacca a trade name for Citra? I've heard complaints about this year's Citra crops having onion/garlic aroma too. I have a pound in the freezer but haven't opened it yet.

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Definitely not the same hop - Azacca was formerly known as ADHA 483 while it was still in the experimental phases.

Any updates on this? I'm brewing this this weekend, and I began my starter of WLP007 last night. I'm wondering what fermentation temperature I should shoot for. Any advice? I've never used this yeast before.

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