Glass cooktop = slowwwww boil

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glmccready

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I've done about a dozen Mr. Beers, and decided to take it up a notch. Boiled two gallons in my 24 quart SS pot and it took over 45 min. I then boiled 3 gallons, took even longer. I put my malt extract in and never really got a really great rolling boil for more than a few minutes. Of course I was worried about boil over so i did stir often. I could get it to boil if I put the lid on, but I was too concerned about boil over to do that for any length of time.
So, without going out and buy a propane burner..

How important is it to get a long rolling boil? It just seemed that it wasn't boiling fast and furious. It is a new stove and has a very large cook area for the big pot. I just think the stove top is designed not to get too hot. Truthfully I think the old calrod elements were faster.
Thanks for your input!

1st boil = 45min (covered)
2nd boil =1 hour (covered)
time to get wort to boil = over 1/2 hour (uncovered)
boil time with wort = 1 hour (covered only periodically)
4 hours of boiling.....
 
Its very important for a good rolling boil. The point being that the bittering hops are not water soluble. The rolling boil helps the acids come out to help bitter the beer.
 
It might take a while, longer than you want but you will eventually get a boil no matter the cook top. If you have a grill, buy a propane stand setup from lowes, usually like 20-50 bucks and hook up your propane tank to it.
 
I don't get the cover thing. I don't think you can get a reduction with the lid on? I just did a full 6 gallon boil on my stove. Aluminum pot for one and I had it sitting in the middle of two burners. It worked out for me.
 
I had similar problems when I moved to larger pot. Ended up finding a turkey frier set-up on craigslist for $30. $20 for the propane and now I brew outdoors, which I find is preferable (as does swmbo).
I actually try to avoid the vigorous rolling boil - and my LHBS owner agrees with this practice.
 
Get an outdoor burner. Totally worth it.

A good boil is important. Burn off DMS. Apparently with the cover on the DMS stays trapped in as well and doesn't boil off, so you should boild without a cover. And there is a difference between a rolling boil, and too much of a boil. Once I hit the boil point, I turn my burner down quite a bit to maintain it, otherwise I'll boil off 2 gallons of wort.
 
brewd00d said:
Boil under a vacuum. :)
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Brewing in SPAAAAAAAAACE!

Before I started brewing, I was tempted to get a turkey fryer setup but didn't jump for it. Now that I'm 5 batches in, I wish I had, because I'm ready to try my hand at BIAB
 
Craigslist is your friend. Just got an 8 cu.ft chest freezer (commercial grade) for $60.
 
you could always use a heatstick to supplement the cooktop. I like the outdoor option better, but it could work.
 
I might be crazy, but I'm betting your issue is thermal transfer, not quantity heat. If you were really desperate you could try a thin layer of wheel bearing grease spread on the underside of your brewkettle to improve transfer, as it retains viscosity even under extreme heat. There might be a small chance of fire and death, but since there is no flame I think you would be okay.

Is your kettle flat-bottomed? If it isn't, you're screwed no matter what.
 
HopKeller said:
I had similar problems when I moved to larger pot. Ended up finding a turkey frier set-up on craigslist for $30. $20 for the propane and now I brew outdoors, which I find is preferable (as does swmbo).
I actually try to avoid the vigorous rolling boil - and my LHBS owner agrees with this practice.
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i guess if you are making a light colored beer with extract you might want to avoid a really hard boil but in general a rolling boil is not a bad thing. i would avoid that LHBS owner's advice.
 
A boil is a boil, right? The temp's not going to exceed 212 deg., is it?

* Also, I am thus far doing only partial mashes.
 
HopKeller said:
A boil is a boil, right? The temp's not going to exceed 212 deg., is it?

* Also, I am thus far doing only partial mashes.
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Correct- a boil is a boil. But you definitely want a boil- not a simmer! A good rolling boil with bubbles breaking over the surface is required for two reasons- 1. hops utilization and 2. DMS boil off

You definitely do NOT want to use a lid, either, so that the DMS can boil off with the steam. You can use a lid to get to a boil, but then remove it for the hour boil!
 
I never use a lid. Know better than that.
Since I started using a propane burner, I've found that I can incrementally control my boil and I prefer a less vigorous boil, but it is definitely "boiling".
 
What if your stove won't boil unless the lid is on? I've been leaving the lid on until a boil, taking it off until the boil recedes (~10 min), and put the lid back on until boil starts again. My batches so far have been pretty good, so I guess that system is ok-ish, can't wait until I get a turkey frier though.
 
I have a ceramic stove. It will boil up to 4 gallons of wort - so to do 5.5 gallon batches, I do 2 boils which increases the length of my brew day unfortunately. Even with this, it takes a while to bring to a boil. I use the lid, first entirely on (watching carefully) and then as the boil starts, I crack it open. This allows for DMS but keeps the surface temp up.

For anyone interested, you are not supposed to extend a pot over two burners on a ceramic stove. I believe this is because it raises the temperature of the intervening stovetop which was not meant to be heated.

Also, I bought 2 identical stainless steel 5 gallon pots (I think I read somewhere that you are also not supposed to use aluminum on ceramic tops) from the same store. One will reach a boil and one will not no matter the length of time. It probably has to do with the contour along the bottom which is designed to flatten out as it heats. My guess is that the one that does not boil does not flatten properly and so does not have enough contact with the stovetop.
 
Yes I can only boil 4 gallons max. I'm dying for a natural gas burner, but new ones seem to be $200+, and I live in Canada so they are extra-hard to acquire.

To get a quicker boil on my ceramic top, I only add hot water to my pot. While the grain is steeping, I'll boil several litres of water in a smaller pot, and put some more water in the microwave to heat it up. WHen it's time to bring the wort to a boil and remove the grains, I add the really hot water that I've just heated. I can get 4 gallons or so to a boil in 10 minutes doing this. It helps to have discipline and DO NOT TAKE THE LID OFF UNTIL IT'S BOILING! Every time you open up that lid to peek, you've basically added 2 minutes.
 
ayoungrad said:
I have a ceramic stove. It will boil up to 4 gallons of wort - so to do 5.5 gallon batches, I do 2 boils which increases the length of my brew day unfortunately. Even with this, it takes a while to bring to a boil. I use the lid, first entirely on (watching carefully) and then as the boil starts, I crack it open. This allows for DMS but keeps the surface temp up.

For anyone interested, you are not supposed to extend a pot over two burners on a ceramic stove. I believe this is because it raises the temperature of the intervening stovetop which was not meant to be heated.

Also, I bought 2 identical stainless steel 5 gallon pots (I think I read somewhere that you are also not supposed to use aluminum on ceramic tops) from the same store. One will reach a boil and one will not no matter the length of time. It probably has to do with the contour along the bottom which is designed to flatten out as it heats. My guess is that the one that does not boil does not flatten properly and so does not have enough contact with the stovetop.
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I must have broke like 5 rules then. I did a 6 gallon boil, aluminum pot over two elements. The beer turned out great. I am thinking about doing my mashing inside from now on. Just kick on the propane for the boil.
 
paulster2626 said:
Yes I can only boil 4 gallons max. I'm dying for a natural gas burner, but new ones seem to be $200+, and I live in Canada so they are extra-hard to acquire.

To get a quicker boil on my ceramic top, I only add hot water to my pot. While the grain is steeping, I'll boil several litres of water in a smaller pot, and put some more water in the microwave to heat it up. WHen it's time to bring the wort to a boil and remove the grains, I add the really hot water that I've just heated. I can get 4 gallons or so to a boil in 10 minutes doing this. It helps to have discipline and DO NOT TAKE THE LID OFF UNTIL IT'S BOILING! Every time you open up that lid to peek, you've basically added 2 minutes.
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what's going on in canada with gas burners? can you get propane burners?
 
I do full volume boil on my ceramic top stove --- 7.5 gallons. I leave the lid on until I hit 212 and then boil with it half on. Takes me about 20-30 min. to go from 168 to boiling. I maintain a nice rolling boil for 60-90 minutes. My brew pot has a very heavy / thick base which I think helps. I've never had any DMS issues and beer tends to be outstanding (personal opinion, plus that of friends and competition judges).
 
Beezy said:
I must have broke like 5 rules then. I did a 6 gallon boil, aluminum pot over two elements. The beer turned out great. I am thinking about doing my mashing inside from now on. Just kick on the propane for the boil.
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Yeah, I bet its the kind of thing where the top would almost never be damaged by using aluminum or two burners - except the one time I would try it. And my stove top was over $500 so I'm not going to push my luck.
 
Hey, FWIW I just checked the manufacturer website and it says aluminum is fine on my stovetop - just not copper or ceramic. If only I could find it in writing that bridging two elements won't harm it either, I'd be in business.
 
eastoak said:
what's going on in canada with gas burners? can you get propane burners?
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I can, but I have a NG grill so I don't have to bother with propane tanks. I want something I can just plug in to my quick-connect on the deck. NG burners are available, but everything to do with homebrewing seems to cost twice as much here as the good 'ol USA.
 
brewd00d said:
It might take a while, longer than you want but you will eventually get a boil no matter the cook top. If you have a grill, buy a propane stand setup from lowes, usually like 20-50 bucks and hook up your propane tank to it.
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I tried to boil six gallons for my first brew. Started at 3 in the afternoon. By 9 I gave up and continued on. Had a slow boil but not rolling. Inconsistent heat. 200 in center 175-180 towards the outside. Lost a lot through evap. On had about 4 gallons left.
 
Srceenplay said:
I tried to boil six gallons for my first brew. Started at 3 in the afternoon. By 9 I gave up and continued on. Had a slow boil but not rolling. Inconsistent heat. 200 in center 175-180 towards the outside. Lost a lot through evap. On had about 4 gallons left.
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It's because you were watching it. As we all know, a watched pot never boils. Had you looked away for a few minutes, you would have had success!

Dumb question - did you have a lid on it?
 
While I agree that the full boil utilizes your hops more fully, I've had so much trouble with involuntary carmelization that I am happy with a vigorous simmer these days.

One of my LHBS (I have several) advocates for extract brewers a thirty minute boil with more hops rather than a sixty minute boil with less hops. Yeah, I know you could argue that they make more money off of hops this way, but I don't think that's the reason they do this. It's a carmelization precaution.

They advocate that the DMS issue has already been at least partiallly addressed by the people who made your extract in the process of doing that.

I've got a ten gallon stainless kettle made of 1/8th inch 316SS, which I've used on a two burner coleman stove, and I've got a five gallon aluminum kettle that I use on two burners of my electric stove. Either can yield carmelization if I get too enthusiastic about a boil.
 
I boil full batches in my studio apartment with a lid partially covering the pot. I put my 10 gallon brewpot on two burners. I wipe off the lid every ten minutes or so to make sure no condensed DMS drips back into the wort. I have never had a problem with DMS.
 
I have a griddle element between my front and back burners and I use all three and that brings 13 gal to a rolling boil in my stubby kettle... I say for full extract brewers it's ok to leave the lid on during the boil because all the DMS is boiled off during the manufacturing process :)

Edit: ok ok, the kettle is 13g and ive boilled up to 11.5 confortably :mug:
 
paulster2626 said:
It's because you were watching it. As we all know, a watched pot never boils. Had you looked away for a few minutes, you would have had success!

Dumb question - did you have a lid on it?
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Nope. No lid. Every thing I read said not too.
For the first hour I excitedly watched the pot.... Then read a brew book.... Then scoured these forums. Wife said if it takes 7-8 hours, I'll brew never again. Told her it was just a learning experience. It'll be better next time.
 
Srceenplay said:
Nope. No lid. Every thing I read said not too.
For the first hour I excitedly watched the pot.... Then read a brew book.... Then scoured these forums. Wife said if it takes 7-8 hours, I'll brew never again. Told her it was just a learning experience. It'll be better next time.
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You need to put a lid on to get it up to a boil, otherwise it'll never happen. Once the liquid starts to boil and roll, it takes less heat to maintain it. My non-scientific guess as to why is because the rolling is circulating the heat very evenly throughout the pot. Before it boils, however, there is enough heat loss from the top and sides to prevent a rolling boil.

Try it again. If it still doesn't work, I'll buy you and your wife a beer.
 
paulster2626 said:
Try it again. If it still doesn't work, I'll buy you and your wife a beer.
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Lol. NW. Going to use a burner outside now.
Side note. The wife hates beer. It stinks and taste gross.
 
the only time you have a boil over is usually at the beginning when it gets going and there is mad hot break and hops and its too full. Once it dies down and you have a good level from the top,**** i just walk away sometimes and let it go.
If you can safely put the lid on to get it to a boil do it. Otherwise use less and just top off for the time being.
Im about to try doing a 4 gallon boil double small batch for me, just so i can use a whole yeast packet plus im behind and i bottled two and have two empties. Im using glass top, not shure if i can do an all grain but i may just use some dme to make it easier for a partial double mash for the first time.Ive mashed and gotten another pot to boil but not two boils at once should be interesting. Plus it will cut down another brew day for me.
 
Thanks for all the input guys: My pot is high quality flat on the bottom, so I don't think that is the problem. My stove has one huge burner, with 3 different size selections. The largest cover the bottom of my entire pot. I also have a two burner side with a "bridge" for oblong pots which is even bigger, maybe I'll try that next time.
Guess I'll also keep the lip on more, and just be careful. I did have alot of evaporation, so i guess I msut have had enough of a boil. I had to add 3 quarts to my 3 gallon boil at the end to get it to 5 gallons.
Nice to know I'm not the only one with this problem!

With winter coming I guess I could always get a turkey frier, but have avoided it this summer. Just too hot to be outside making beer!
 
Yeah you need to figure what boil off you have too, i usually get 1/2 gallon per 2.2 boil almost every time.I know what level by eyballing it so i just topp off during my boil, to get where i want and its always worked except once i had to use a little distilled top off water.
 
I like this idea a lot. Have another pot going with a gallon and a half or so. Throw the required topoff in with about 10 minutes left (depending on additions) and you dont have to top of with tap water or bottled water. Jeez, you learn something every day.
 
glmccready said:
I also have a two burner side with a "bridge" for oblong pots which is even bigger, maybe I'll try that next time.
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The bridged griddle section on my stove is much better than the larger triple size burner. But check it out for your stove.

Anyone having trouble with boiling on the stove needs to check out the heat stick. They are relatively cheap and easy to make and gets that water moving fast.
 
The bridged side is narrower but alot longer, really for more of a large oval pot.
Yea , I had extra boiled water already , because I boiled over a gallon for the "rehydrate" in the "How to Brew". I needed every ounce, to get me back to 5 gallons. Glad I didn't start with 2 1/2 gallons, instead of 3, like the recipe said. I never would have believed I would lose almost 3 quarts in a 3 gallon boil, esp with my "wimpy" boil.
 
djfriesen said:
I like this idea a lot. Have another pot going with a gallon and a half or so. Throw the required topoff in with about 10 minutes left (depending on additions) and you dont have to top of with tap water or bottled water. Jeez, you learn something every day.
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THREADHIJACK: Buh? I was sure this was how it had to be too, but everything I read said topping off with unboiled tap was fine. :confused:
 
Kerin said:
THREADHIJACK: Buh? I was sure this was how it had to be too, but everything I read said topping off with unboiled tap was fine. :confused:
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What I've always done - never had a problem.

Although, if you're going to get serious about chlorine and pH and all that jazz, you're going to need to treat (or at least assess) your tap water first.
 

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